Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 24
  1. #1

    Niagra: R2 vs Ax

    We have several vendors of Tridium each using thier branded version. The specifications doe not explicitly require the Ax version, althought stating the most current software version to be provided. I am having a conflict with a vendor suppling R2 equipment. I am curious if I should be pressing this harder from the technical capability of the two versions and future compatibility? How long will R2 be sold/supported?

  2. #2
    I'll put it this way. Would you buy a 10 year old Volkswagen for the same price as a brand new BMW. I doubt it.

    Freddy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    336
    Nothing wrong with R2 but as Freddy said, it is an older release, is not directly compatible with Ax, and most vendors are providing Ax. That'll be the way forward.
    gnomethang
    _______________________________________________
    "Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them."
    - The Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

  4. #4
    I think the only drawback I would see is the potential for additional cost to integrate R2 into AX. The only two solutions to bridge the systems together is to have an Obix driver in both the R2 and AX systems, or integrate everything using BACnet. I haven't worked with Obix to know if the integration between R2 and AX is bulletproof or not ; but BACnet works okay for sharing data points (may be slower depending on the amount of exported points).

    From a standpoint of ease, I would recommend asking the vendor to use AX if at all possible (just make sure there are no surprises in NiCS). You could then simply use the Niagara Network to share all the information.

    Is the vendor providing Vykon or a third-party branded solution? It's possible that they could be using a third-party control solution that does not offer AX (such as Carrier).

    As for how long R2 will be supported, I think R2 is starting to see its twilight already. With increasing cost for any R2 equipment, plus the majority of the Niagara Community now using AX, I could see Tridium discontinuing it within the next 12-24 months (not very gratifying for a new install).
    Last edited by misternorth79; 12-24-2007 at 09:53 AM. Reason: mis-spellings (damn..)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    90
    I am currently using the OBix driver to bridge the R2 into the AX. I am having no issues. However All programing must be done in the R2. The AX will have read and override abilities but can not write to the R2 points. This is because the R2 can only be a OBix server with no client capabilities.
    As far as to use or not to use R2 really depends on the field bus and system being used. AX offers LON and BACnet. Some companies have created their own drivers available for MODbus and N2.
    R2 as a large amount of drivers available to be licensed. R2 is still a great solution for a customer to migrate their existing system forward with the ability to upgrade in the future while still befitting from the prior investment. This also helps burden the cost of a complete system upgrade.
    AX is the System you want for your server with a mixed R2 and AX system. And the newer Jaces can be upgraded to AX as well when the time comes.

  6. #6
    Thanks to everyone for the information. This has comfirmed for me the need to press this issue. I have felt that this has not provided a competitive bid or best product installation!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    327
    The vendor will probably argue that they are giving you the latest version of R2 and that AX is a separate product, not a new version. Technically they'd be right.

  8. #8
    Does this Vendor affiliated with TAC? What field devices? If so, here is the game they are playing around here anyway. They will try to force R2 down your throat if the spec does not specify AX Niagara. They are gearing up for the new TAC stuff to try to play at the same level as AX. The last thing they want to do is put in a nice modern and open system when they can sell you a proprietary setup in a few years and lock you down for a long time.


    Freddy

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,144
    Quote Originally Posted by tlp261 View Post
    The vendor will probably argue that they are giving you the latest version of R2 and that AX is a separate product, not a new version. Technically they'd be right.
    Not really, they would be getting Rev 2 and not Rev 3 of NIAGARA...
    (just had to say it)
    “It is impossible for one to learn what one thinks they already know"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    18
    Sorry to jump in on this thread but, have any of you been to Tridium schools and were they useful or not?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    90
    I have been to the R2 engineering class that Invensys hosted. I have been using AX now for six months and Attended a Honeywell Spyder class which helped complete in the transition from R2 to AX. I found both classes a great way to fill in where the documentation was lacking. I had been using R2 and AX on jobs in both instances before attending the classes. I would suggest this strategy to everyone. The instructors move quickly through the material and can leave a Niagara newbie behind in a flash.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cullowhee, NC
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by MDaly View Post
    AX is the System you want for your server with a mixed R2 and AX system. And the newer Jaces can be upgraded to AX as well when the time comes.
    So if I have a current R2 system, I can upgrade to an AX server and have a mixed R2 and AX system?

    I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP, our campus has 16 Trane BCUs, 1 NAE, and 10 JACEs all communicating back to a R2 server. The BCUs and NAE are communicating to the Tridium server through BACnet over IP, enabling us to serve up graphics from the server seamlessly throughout all of the systems.

    We just purchased Itron energy management software which will use a gateway to poll data from the Tridium server. I want to force my Tridium vendor (Yamas, now t.a.c) to provide AX on new jobs, which there are going to be a lot of on campus. But what does that mean to my existing server and configuration?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by MDaly View Post
    I have been to the R2 engineering class that Invensys hosted. I have been using AX now for six months and Attended a Honeywell Spyder class which helped complete in the transition from R2 to AX. I found both classes a great way to fill in where the documentation was lacking. I had been using R2 and AX on jobs in both instances before attending the classes. I would suggest this strategy to everyone. The instructors move quickly through the material and can leave a Niagara newbie behind in a flash.
    Thanks for your advice.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event