Regular Guest
I am working as an installation helper, and sad to say I'm not really enjoying it very much. On the positive side I'm learning wiring and getting TONS of brazing practice (no one seems to use tubing benders or swaging tools at this company), but other than that it's not quite what I had in mind when I decided to go into HVAC. When I interviewed for the position, I spoke with the owner and his son about wanting to get into the service/troubleshooting end of the trade rather than the construction end, and they both insisted that I needed to focus on installation before I could even think about doing service.
So how true is this in your experience? Is installation experience really necessary to make one a good service tech?
Professional Member
My first job was as a start up tech for brand new apartment complexes, then I was a start up tech for new houses, then I was a service tech. Now I do pull and cleans and installs. Installs are more hard work but less stress than making service calls all day. Today I clocked 12 hours and have more installs tomorrow. Im starting to realize it was true when a veteran tech told me "different company, same ****." I love the technical part of the job but the other stuff is what becomes a real drag.
Professional Member*
Necessary no, very helpful yes. Ever wonder why most all companies wIll only accept applications from guys with at least 3-5 years experience for a service tech? It takes a fair amount of on the job hands on experience to be a proficient tech. Put in your time in the trenches like everybody else.
Member
You won't find too many swageing tools and tubing benders in resi work. Are you reinventing the wheel or starting your own company? By the way lots of brazing is six months straight eight hours a day. Do installation for at least a yr before becoming maintenance tech you will thank yourself later.
Professional Member*
In service you see bits and pieces and plug them into the big picture, in your head, of what you imagine this system looks like.
In construction and installation, you learn what that big picture really looks like. Walls and ceilings may be open, letting you see duct work and pipe runs.
It really helps to walk through a few real world big pictures, so you can imagine them better and more easily later on when walls and ceilings obstruct mostly everything we work on.
In service your riding around solo usually. In installs and construction you normally work on crews of two or more people. It's helpful to learn things from multiple teachers, by asking questions to more than one person. We all look at things a little differently and use different methods. It's nice to pick and choose tactics from more than one source.
Professional Member*
I do not like throwing new people into installation. I feel if you take someone new who doesn't know anything (and trust me right now you don't know anything) they learn how to do things in an order and repetition but they don't learn anything about air conditioning.
You teach some one how to attach this color wire here, braze that like this, connect the duct work like this, and so on.
Then you have someone with more experience come in and fix any problems, vacuum the system, and start it up.
I prefer to stick new guys with the PM department, with a seasoned tech who needs a helping hand, move slow, teach what the parts are, how they work, how to diagnose problem, then after 6 months to a year you send them to do installs. Now they have an understanding of how the system works and how bad installs cause problems. They can use that info to do a better job and now they learn more about installing and have thee foresight to see an installation error.
Then you make them a service technician. Now they know how it should have been installed, how it should have been taken care of, and why it isn't working. They are much faster at diagnostics and have a better understanding of what is required to change out parts well.
I hate when companies train guys how to be mechanical monkeys instead of intelligent mechanics.
If you're too "open" minded, your brains will fall out.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Professional Member
I won't say it's necessary. I've never been "an installer". Yes, I've done installs.
One area this hurts me, is sheet metal/tin knocking. I work around it, and ask questions if needed. That is a weakness.
However, I've been a service tech since the start. But, I didn't start doing this until I was in my late 20s, and my previous life/career experiences are what allowed me to become a VERY proficient tech in a relatively short period of time.
Every one is different.
Chase
Professional Member
Knowing how systems are put together, where things are usually located, and understanding the big picture is very important. Many times, my experience in installation has helped me solve the problem quicker or better than I would have without it. Hang in there. Try to find the smartest person you work with and latch onto them. Upgrade yourself, your tools, and your skills every chance you get and the money and opportunities will follow.
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
Regular Guest
It's not so much that I don't want to put in my time "in the trenches", I'm planning on sticking with it - just as long as it helps me get a job doing service down the road. I was really just wondering if the idea "you have to do installation before going into service" is a universally agreed upon thing, or just something my employers told me so I wouldn't complain about the fact that I wasn't doing quite what I wanted to do.Originally Posted by jtrammel
Regular Guest
Not sure I follow about the "reinventing the wheel" comment, but I just kinda figured that incorporating a bender and swaging tool to do your linesets would make the job faster and easier. Am I wrong there?
AOP Committee/Professional Member*
No
Professional Member
I started in apt complexes, night school, then running service, now contracting. My weakness is figuring the boxes, mental block maybe, but seems different warehouses stock different stuff, and I know my ductwork isnt the best, but youd have to look pretty close to notice. Read this forum, and try to learn the theory of how/why the system works, to get the understanding of what the system is supposed to do. Once you have that with install, then service, then chart your own course. Starting on install helpful, but dont limit yourself, and know that that 6" long liquid line tatto is a badge of honor weve all proudly worn
Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk
Professional Member
I am new to the trade and have been doing a few replacement installs and think that is a good way to start.
You get a macro overview of the complete system as you put it in.
Remove and install of the condenser and evaporator with recovery and pump-down, There is a little duct work, thermostat and low voltage, high voltage and disconnects, line sets and welding, system flush, overflow sensors and condensate lines lines, nitro flush and leak test, vacuum and charging.
You see it all in one shot.
I like change-outs because I get to setup and tune in the final system the correct way as the manufacturers instructions recommend. Yes- I read directions. I charge to Sub-Cool or Super-Heat as required. And I know the system is performing as engineered and will perform as the customer expects.
After you do a few installs, when you go on a service call, you'll understand the what part of the system is failing and know how to diagnose as you know how the whole system works.
Professional Member*
installation vs service techs are 2 different animals...install guys are gods like WOW you are awesome and owners think thy are great dong there installs...now the service guy walk into a customer and they are in your face and find out the problem need to learn the tricks of the trade to be a mint service breakdown guy.the bosses there surely want you in installs cause you won't leave so fast...but a service guy will tip a shop in a minute for a better situation and progressive show.....do installs for 10 years and forget doing walk in breakdown service for somebody else.... I have seen it...
"when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY
Professional Member*
We all get what we can when we first break into the trade. If you find yourself just doing residential installs, it is very easy to get stuck there, but with the right employer, you can still make good money once you're good. There are many different type of companies doing a great variety of installs.
I've done a fair amount of commercial installs. That often means more plumbing than duct work, which can be a lot of fun, trying your best to make everything really cool looking. It's really all about the challenges you will meet and overcome as you learn more about the filed.
About the only thing I can add at this point is that if you find yourself getting bored, find the right moment and tell that to your boss. Be humble about it, just let him know you'd like to expand your horizons. If you become good at what you are doing, and the boss man likes what you are doing, he'll want to keep you and will most likely find ways to give you new challenges.
Professional Member
Right out of trade school I wound up at a commercial shop that had fertilizer plants like Cargill and CF Industries for accounts and I was stuck in that mess for 2+ years. I started at CF Industries right when our company first got the account and we were switching all their water source stuff over to air cooled so there was install-a-plenty for me to learn on. I learned to PM the units I helped to install and would get sent over to see if I could figure it out if one of them broke down. I crawled thru large metal ducts dragging a shop vac along behind me sweeping it which was their idea of IAQ and dodged drips of sulfuric and phosphoric acid on a daily basis so there are worse things to do........lol.
The thing is tho is I wasnt just turned loose on installs with someone who knew about as much or maybe a bit more than I did at the time and that was the end of it. Before I got to my current employment, thats how things were there. The blind leading the blind and repitition. These guys knew what went where but hadnt the faintest idea why. If you install with someone that really has a grip on the trade and can teach as you go then residential install is ok. If its the previous, I dunno.
As far as the rathet bender and hydroswage, I wish I hadof gotten mine when I was first starting out. Mine help me out immensely. Nothing wrong with them at all. All I buy nowadays is 3/4 and 7/8 st. ells. Eveything else I make. Sure has cut costs on fittings. Now if I was back in service again I dont know how much use I would get out of them but for installs they are great.
As far as service goes tho, I left the fertilizer plants for another job that a cooworker at the mines got me and had sold me to the new boss as a full fledged service tech. I hadnt a damn clue and got totally thrown to the wolves. The key was I wasnt afraid to pick up the nextel and ask someone a question instead of plowing ahead and costing the company money. Some guys were helpful and some werent. I stuck with the guys that were and wound up putting in 15 years there as one of 3 top techs before my injury that took me out of the trade for a few years.
You will find like most do that each job is a stepping stone to a better one in the beginning. Take what you can and move on to something better. Keep doing it until you find a good home. If you are hungry, you'll get there.....Good Luck!
l8r
Professional Member
^This^
The jobs require different skill sets and a different MINDset.
Yes, I see some value to a service tech to working on an install crew, but I don't necessarily feel handicapped by never having worked on an install crew.
Professional Member*
That is a strange post from a strange point of view. I don't think it's even worth my time to categorically respond to each point.
Regular Guest
Yes that is all I'm looking at this install gig as - a stepping stone. I figure it'll at least get me some good experience and will look good on a resume. I definitely do not want to do installs forever though, and I am currently looking for another job where I would be able get some service experience as well. Ideally I'd like to learn a bit of both before going full-time into service. But right now I have to take what I can get.
Curious about this - aren't most of the ratcheting benders capable of doing 3/4 and 7/8?
Regular Guest
I did mention it to the boss, and he told me that we would talk about moving me to the service dept. when summer is over. For some reason I don't believe him, but we will see.
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