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  1. #1

    CSI MR88R Controller Software?

    I have a building with CSI controls. There are two Package Rooftop Units (20tons) that are continuously short cycling big time. The are controlled by a CSI MR88R micro regulator controller. Nothing is labeled and I have no idea what the unit is supposed to be controlling to.

    Internet searches turn up very little since CSI was aquired by TAC. Does anyone have the software or manuals to these controllers. I would love to rip them out but the whole building is controlled by CSI controllers. The is a main board in the back of the building where the LAN communication lands on. (Model#7790).

    Any help would be appreciated!

    Zandman

  2. #2
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    An apprentice is half a journeyman ,two apprentices is a call back.

  3. #3
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    There is not a host PC on site or an I-Site Lan to look at the system?
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
    Versatile Hunting Dog Federation - www.vhdf.org/


  4. #4
    There is no PC on site. The MR88R LAN communications end up on a main control board in a panel. From there there is a Serial outgoing cable from the board to a serial-to-ethernet converter (MOXA). From there it interfacing with a Plexas Altitude front end. Very basic, the screen shows some temps and status's. Apparently the Plexus computer is offsite, at least thats the way the facility techs told me. They look at the computer screen via a web page hyperlink. The connection and updates are soooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow. I scratched my head as to what they are really reading because I powered down the two CSI MR88R boards and the computer was still showing temps two hours later. I click buttons to try and see if anything happens and it never did.

    What software is needed? I/Net2000? Any simple way to read values?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hartford, Connecticut
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    442
    CSI - Control Systems International is now TAC which is a a combination of the old CSI, Andover Controls and Invesys Building Systems (old Barber Colman & Robertshaw). TAC is owned by Schnieder Electric. Typically most sites we do would have a Host PC Operator Workstation connected to the Controller LAN for a operator interface. The most current software would be I/NET Seven which operates on Windows XP Pro or Windows 2000. I/NET 2000 was the older software which ran on Windows 95 / Windows 98 / Windows NT. For smaller sites that do not require a OWS or that have Access Control you can have a TAC model 7798B I/SITE. This is a LAN Interface Controller with a LCD display on the front. It is basically the same device that your site has (7790A LIU - LAN Interface Unit). The primary difference is your model has 2 com ports that each support 32 Sub-LAN controllers/nodes per com port for a total of 64 Sub-LAN nodes. These controllers do not have any I/O Points they are strictly an interface for the polling type controllers to access the main Controller LAN which is peer to peer and the I/SITE only has one com port for up to 32 Sub-LAN controllers/nodes. Other options would be a laptop; however that would still require licensed software. If the site has a legitimate master license, TAC offers a seat license which would be a few hundred dollars. Or you can get a Xenta 527 router/web server combo, which would allow you to access the system through Internet Explorer. Most Controller LAN's are configured for 19.2K baud rate on the RS-485 and the serial ports for a direct connect or RS-232 communications are usually at 9600 baud. The DDC Controller that you have on the Rooftop Units the MR88R is a Micro Regulator Controller with 8 inputs and 8 outputs. 1 of the inputs has to be an I/Stat or 10K sensor the other 7 are universal inputs, the 8 outputs are PWM DO or AO, if AO they need a transducer of some sort typically. There is another model with Triac Outputs, the most common one we use and see is with the PWM Outputs. You can tell them apart by looking at the outputs if the board has form C relays it is using the PWM Outputs. Database and programming is custom not canned. The memory for DDC Control Loops is limited. Hope that helps. I am not familiar with the front end you described.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    1,915
    Quote Originally Posted by zandman View Post
    There is no PC on site. The MR88R LAN communications end up on a main control board in a panel. From there there is a Serial outgoing cable from the board to a serial-to-ethernet converter (MOXA). From there it interfacing with a Plexas Altitude front end. Very basic, the screen shows some temps and status's. Apparently the Plexus computer is offsite, at least thats the way the facility techs told me. They look at the computer screen via a web page hyperlink. The connection and updates are soooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow. I scratched my head as to what they are really reading because I powered down the two CSI MR88R boards and the computer was still showing temps two hours later. I click buttons to try and see if anything happens and it never did.

    What software is needed? I/Net2000? Any simple way to read values?


    I don't think your system at this time is connected to that computer.

    If you have NO HOST out there for programming or looking at the controller, then you needs NO LISCENCE software (Tha's what I was told by the TAC Rep).

    If that building used to have the host then the software is available at no cost to you. All you need to do is to get with a TAC dealer near you and give them the physical address. They find for you. You must push them. Once you get the software, load it and go from there.

    If this building only has these two package unit, then rip them out and go with another controller. Because it is hell a lot cheaper then buying the software.

  7. #7

    7790 board

    Quote Originally Posted by zandman View Post
    There is no PC on site. The MR88R LAN communications end up on a main control board in a panel. From there there is a Serial outgoing cable from the board to a serial-to-ethernet converter (MOXA). From there it interfacing with a Plexas Altitude front end. Very basic, the screen shows some temps and status's. Apparently the Plexus computer is offsite, at least thats the way the facility techs told me. They look at the computer screen via a web page hyperlink. The connection and updates are soooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow. I scratched my head as to what they are really reading because I powered down the two CSI MR88R boards and the computer was still showing temps two hours later. I click buttons to try and see if anything happens and it never did.

    What software is needed? I/Net2000? Any simple way to read values?
    If you have a net plus router you should only need 1/net2000 or 1/net7 installed on you computer. if you are looking to change over and you do not have a use for your 7790 let me know. I can give you snap shots of how ours is configured as a host.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    168

    Xenta 527

    Quote Originally Posted by twisted pair View Post
    CSI - Control Systems International is now TAC which is a a combination of the old CSI, Andover Controls and Invesys Building Systems (old Barber Colman & Robertshaw). TAC is owned by Schnieder Electric. Typically most sites we do would have a Host PC Operator Workstation connected to the Controller LAN for a operator interface. The most current software would be I/NET Seven which operates on Windows XP Pro or Windows 2000. I/NET 2000 was the older software which ran on Windows 95 / Windows 98 / Windows NT. For smaller sites that do not require a OWS or that have Access Control you can have a TAC model 7798B I/SITE. This is a LAN Interface Controller with a LCD display on the front. It is basically the same device that your site has (7790A LIU - LAN Interface Unit). The primary difference is your model has 2 com ports that each support 32 Sub-LAN controllers/nodes per com port for a total of 64 Sub-LAN nodes. These controllers do not have any I/O Points they are strictly an interface for the polling type controllers to access the main Controller LAN which is peer to peer and the I/SITE only has one com port for up to 32 Sub-LAN controllers/nodes. Other options would be a laptop; however that would still require licensed software. If the site has a legitimate master license, TAC offers a seat license which would be a few hundred dollars. Or you can get a Xenta 527 router/web server combo, which would allow you to access the system through Internet Explorer. Most Controller LAN's are configured for 19.2K baud rate on the RS-485 and the serial ports for a direct connect or RS-232 communications are usually at 9600 baud. The DDC Controller that you have on the Rooftop Units the MR88R is a Micro Regulator Controller with 8 inputs and 8 outputs. 1 of the inputs has to be an I/Stat or 10K sensor the other 7 are universal inputs, the 8 outputs are PWM DO or AO, if AO they need a transducer of some sort typically. There is another model with Triac Outputs, the most common one we use and see is with the PWM Outputs. You can tell them apart by looking at the outputs if the board has form C relays it is using the PWM Outputs. Database and programming is custom not canned. The memory for DDC Control Loops is limited. Hope that helps. I am not familiar with the front end you described.
    We Have Tac INet 2000 system with many 7756,7718 etc controllers.We have Licensed software on Laptop,we are accessing controllers with serial cabel provided by Tac Rep.My question is can we Access controller by RS232 To 485 converter from B&B or it is only possible with Xenta 527.Thanks

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hartford, Connecticut
    Posts
    442
    If you are using a cable it is probably a CBL072, which is a DB-9 (PC) to DB-9 (Controller) typically used with the following model numbers; 7716, 7718, 7728, 7756, 7780, 7790A, 7798 .That is made for doing direct connects from a front end Host PC / operator workstation or laptop service tool. It connects thru PC serial port to the TAC controllers RS-232 com port. It is down and dirty. We typically never install a system that way. Maybe a handful of low bid type jobs or usually a very cheap customer over the years that did not want to spend the money to do it the preferred way. Mainly we use that cable for software engineers and technicians connecting there laptop while at a site doing programming, commissioning or troubleshooting.

    There are a few different connection options. You can keep using the cable you have, but you are probably limited as the cable is about 6 FT. long. You can make your own cable I have gone as far as 125’, but for RS-232 you should really keep it no more than 50-75’. The cable pinouts are easy enough and the connectors are standard DB-9 type.

    In the past we used to use a TAP m/n 7801. There are a few different models. It is basically a RS-232 to RS-485 converter that also has some memory capability for alarms & messages and old auto dial / auto answer communications. I have used the B&B one you are referring to, but never on an I/NET system.

    An I/NET Controller LAN is RS-485 @ 19.2K baud

    The last few years we use the NetPlus router and the Xenta 527. Now you can get one compact small device that is a combination NetPlus Router & Xenta 527 web server.

    If you have the need to put your I/NET system on an existing network, or you would like to do remote site access over the web, or have alarms dispatched to email or cell phone then the Xenta 527 would be a good option. There is a utility that can quickly convert existing I/NET graphics to the web server, or you make new ones.

    The other advantage would be once you have a Xenta 527 you now have a gateway to TAC Vista. If you wanted to use that product line which is there open system (as open as it gets) which is LonWorks compatible. It can be used with an existing TAC I/NET proprietary system using the same front end Vista workstation 5 or higher.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    168

    INet Communication

    Thanks for your nice reply.
    The last few years we use the NetPlus router and the Xenta 527. Now you can get one compact small device that is a combination NetPlus Router & Xenta 527 web server.
    I don't understand if you mean Xenta 527 or there is some other compact device.Please if you send me your email address I want to ask you some questions.My email address is ibrahim186@hotmail.com.Thanks again.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Pacific Time Zone
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    4,198
    Go to http://www.tac-global.com/docnet/ASP/FormEng_new2.asp

    and do a search on the Xenta 527

    This will give you product documentation
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
    Versatile Hunting Dog Federation - www.vhdf.org/


  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    168

    Xenta 527

    Quote Originally Posted by crab master View Post
    Go to http://www.tac-global.com/docnet/ASP/FormEng_new2.asp

    and do a search on the Xenta 527

    This will give you product documentation
    crab master my email address is already there if you send me your email I want to ask bussiness related Question.Thanks.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pacific Time Zone
    Posts
    4,198
    you have mail
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
    Versatile Hunting Dog Federation - www.vhdf.org/


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