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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    520

    "Nobody does Lonworks"

    I just got a call from an equipment vendor. He heard I'm the only controls bidder on a job and wanted to coordinate and supply controls with his units that we can interface to. But he heard we do Lonworks. He only wants to supply BACnet because "nobody does LON, except for Trane". I mentioned Honeywell, TAC, Distech, Circon, etc. and asked what distributor I can go to to buy a programmable BACnet control. "F.W. Webb", he says, "Johnson Controls has a full line". I said I thought that was N2, not BACnet. Color me skeptical. Does he know what he's talking about?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,145
    JCI does have a BACnet line of controls now but I just heard this morning that it will be kept for the 'branch' only. You might need to hurry to F.W. Webb before that happens.

    BTW. McQuay, Climate Master, Raypak, ABB, just to name a few will do LON as well.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hoboken, New Jersey
    Posts
    18

    skeptical

    You may also want to cue him that although products maybe bacnet they may be NATIVE Bacnet and that usually means its kept proprietary.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Somewhere, WI
    Posts
    351
    The JCI FX-40 is capable of Bacnet and JCI's FX controllers will be soon (so I keep hearing).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    41

    BACnet / LONworks?? who really cares....

    I'm constantly amazed reading this forum at the obsession that continues over the BACnet / LONworks war in North America. Surely by now we should be educating our clients to move on and concentrate on questions like:

    1) Does the product do what I want, whatever that may be.
    2) have I made clear what the intended outcomes of my project / upgrade etc are.
    3) Has the controls guys got the skills / backup etc to implement a controls strategy that meets the intended design.

    Communication protocols have their place but the quicker the we start to concentrate on outcomes the quicker the controls industry might get some respect from the property / construction industry.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Goodness no. Construction and Property managers are typically cheap so I don't know where that plays into things.

    Understanding the two protocols is a good idea because their fundamental differences address issues of two and three quite differently.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    520
    And 4) Do the controls I prefer to use talk to the rooftop unit manufacturer's controls without any translators?

    If BACnet - No
    If Lonworks - Yes

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    47
    Bacnet - Yes

    Lon - Who knows

    JCI FX LON - dont even try it!!!

    Trane does special things with there SNVT's as do other companies. Not every LON manufacturer is LON compliant, they are LON compatible. There is also LONTALK which is only pieces of LONWORKS.

    Some people use LNS others don't. I think LON is a big PIA!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Even IF somebody is using a structured SNVT ANY LONWORKS device or front end can ACCESS the variable with THEIR TOOLS. Everything COMMUNICATES without a hitch.

    That is a claim even BTL doesn't make concerning bacnet. The reason for that is that Echelon allows use of the protocol in the CORRECT and CONSISTENT manner. bacnet has no such guarantee. ZERO. NADA.

    Take the next step with Lonmark and the profile variable names and functionality are THE SAME. Again, not happening with bacnet.

    Lonworks offers multiple software vendors to configure, monitor and schedule their devices. Which bacnet manufacturer's devices are CONFIGURABLE by another vendors SOFTWARE? We all know that answer is a resounding NONE.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,145
    If Trane does special things with their SNVTs I have yet to see it. Granted, there are a very few proprietary SNVTs but nothing that I have found necessary as of yet. All of the rest of the SNVTs are pretty standard. I think it would be pretty safe to say that it is a lot easier to bring a Trane piece of equipment into a LON network, using any management software of your choosing than any....oh give me a good BACnet example. McQuay and Alerton come to mind, but then you need the Alerton config software. Carrier and ALS? What software do you need to do that? Where can I buy either one of these software packages?
    I do BACnet too so I would be real interested in some good examples of equipment that I can buy and integrate into my BACnet network. It would be pretty important if I could acquire all necessary software to accomplish this. I'm open to suggestions.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    520
    I think LON is a big PIA!
    I'd be interested in knowing what experience informs that opinion.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by ORCA_GUY View Post

    Some people use LNS others don't. I think LON is a big PIA!
    Its only a pain if you don't know it. I'm learning LON right now over at JCI. Yeah its alot different from BACnet, N2, Modbus etc devices and networks. But unless you take the time to understand how it works, its always going to suck.

  13. #13
    I'm a little confused on this thread. You said you got a call from an equipment vendor. Are we talking package units here? What are we talking about?

    He needs to provide you with Lon Cards in his stuff unless you can do BACnet.

    York has Lonworks.
    Trane has lonworks.
    McQuay has Lonworks.

    I believe that Carrier also has a flavour but am not exactly sure how.

    So what's the deal?

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