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  1. #1
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    Need clarification...

    Since many of our HVAC-Talk compatriots hail from the Lonestar state, it is without a doubt many have heard of the "Baby Grace" Tragedy. A small child was beaten to death by scumbag parents and stored in a shed for two months. Then she was dumped out in the sea, only to wash ashore in October.

    I am sure to be flamed for what I have to say. How can so many of you guys hear of this and still believe that we under the watchful care of some loving God? If an innocent child like this suffered this fate, just where was God on that day? I have a hard time with stories like this.....


    r404a

  2. #2
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    I can can tell you very little of what I know about God......because I know very little. But what I have learned is that God gave each of us a free will.

    This is the first time I've heard of this tragedy, and quite frankly it sickens me.

    What I am trying to learn and understand myself is that there are certain things that happen in this world - in our lives - that we will have no way of comprehending.....have no way of understanding how's and the why's..and that's just the way it is.

  3. #3
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    Market,
    That was a level headed response. You are a level headed guy. It is the Christian argument, freewill and what not. But I must say, God showed no mercy on a few Golden Cow worshipers. And to the high pleasure of a lot of Christians, he destroyed a city of queers. Supposedly. That being said, you would figure that before this innocent child (look the story up; what a beautiful kid...I can't imagine how anything close to human could do this) was brutalized, he could let loose a lightning bolt and split these scumbags in half.
    I hope that there is a hell because they should burn forever for this one.



    r404a

  4. #4
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    John Culpepper is offline CHANGE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS Professional Member*
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    Frown

    Quote Originally Posted by r404a View Post
    Since many of our HVAC-Talk compatriots hail from the Lonestar state, it is without a doubt many have heard of the "Baby Grace" Tragedy. A small child was beaten to death by scumbag parents and stored in a shed for two months. Then she was dumped out in the sea, only to wash ashore in October.

    I am sure to be flamed for what I have to say. How can so many of you guys hear of this and still believe that we under the watchful care of some loving God? If an innocent child like this suffered this fate, just where was God on that day? I have a hard time with stories like this.....


    r404a
    I to am upset by what happened to that beautiful little girl. The only comfort I have is that maybe she is in a better place now. Being in whatever environment she must have been in for her entire childhood perhaps would have been worse. I do agree with you that if there is a hell it awaits these awful people and they more than deserve it.
    Nemo me impune lacessit.

    How much blood do I have to bathe in to get clean?

    Don't look down on anyone unless you're helping them up.

  5. #5
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    That's a really tough question, 404. I doubt there would be an acceptable answer...one that really explains "why". But what we do know is that Baby Grace is now in the loving arms of her Creator. She knows joy now that we cannot even imagine.
    I know that this is no answer and does not explain why God allows this to happen. What should God have done? I can only tell you what I would do. But then I would be charged with murder.

    That leaves us with only one question. What can be done to keep it from happening again? This is where the "cruel and unusual punishment" crowd should put their ideas where the sun don't shine. Anyone who perpertrates such a heinous crime should be tortured for life. I bet that would give someone second thoughts before even thinking about doing it.

    You can rest assured that whoever did it WILL pay the price. They still have to answer to God. And He is a vengeful God. Do not be mistaken about that.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

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  6. #6
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    Free will

    People have asked for centuries why God allows free will. It's been wondered why God allowed 9/11, or the Columbine shootings; it's difficult to understand why a loving God wouldn't stop these heinous events from happening.

    When a father raises his children he naturally wants them to be good and safe. But to insure that the children would have to be raised in a rigidly controlled environment where every little aspect of their lives was done for them with zero room for deviation from the plan. Unfortunately, an environment like that would not allow the children to expand their minds or to learn from their mistakes and experiences.

    If God micromanaged every little thing we do in our daily lives, we'd be nothing more than Stepford subjects of his kingdom. He loves us too much for that and instead has chosen to give us the freedom to choose our own paths.

    Death and destruction has been a major catalyst for scientific development in our society. We have long worked to find find cures for disease, ways to protect our people from danger, drugs to treat the mentally ill, etc. If the motivation behind these things didn't exist, we would have made no advancement.

    It is tragic that others are hurt or killed by the decisions some make, but necessary for mankind to grow and better ourselves.

  7. #7
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    It isn't about free will or God needing to micromanage.

    It is about the message God sends with his inaction.

    As we know, he has ordered the death of non-believers at times. At other times, he has killed them himself. So... we know he is willing... we know he is able.

    So, we can only logically assume, then, that God views non-belief as a far more heinous crime than what happened to this young lady.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  8. #8
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    I am surprised by the responses here. I must say Boot, the way you put it was really good. Scrog, when I hear of crimes like this I almost start thinking what you posted. Other times I believe there cannot possibly be a God, much less one who loves His creation, when this happens. Other times I hold out hope that Boot is right.
    I will tell you Irony, though. I read a story about this case and the prosecutor was saying that they are still deciding IF they will seek the death penalty. In Texas. T-E-X-A-S. I am no law major, but if any crime deserves the chair, it is this one. No, the chair is too good for these scum suckers.


    r404a

  9. #9
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    God has a purpose and sometimes he makes it known and other times he doesn't. When my 2nd daughter was born, there were complications and to keep it short, she lived for 2 weeks, blind, deaf, on a breathing machine with only the most basic brain function. Unfortunately, the most basic feeling is pain. She lived for 2 weeks feeling the pain of every shot, every IV or procedure that was done to try to save her. She lived for 2 weeks and we don't know if she was able to feel our warmth when we held her.

    Did I wonder why God allowed this? You bet. God was kind enough to show me the answer in time. Her short life got me and the rest of my family back to church. I became active in church and not just another body in the service. I've served missions and she is an important part of my testimony. Her story has helped moved people to accept Christ as their savior. Her short life has had a large impact on my family's Christian life and the lives of others. That was her purpose. She fulfilled it wonderfully in a short time and was called back home to God.
    Never knock on Death's door. Ring the bell and run, he hates that.

    Views expressed here are my own and not neccessarily those of any company I am affiliated with.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by coordinatesales View Post
    God has a purpose and sometimes he makes it known and other times he doesn't. When my 2nd daughter was born, there were complications and to keep it short, she lived for 2 weeks, blind, deaf, on a breathing machine with only the most basic brain function. Unfortunately, the most basic feeling is pain. She lived for 2 weeks feeling the pain of every shot, every IV or procedure that was done to try to save her. She lived for 2 weeks and we don't know if she was able to feel our warmth when we held her.

    Did I wonder why God allowed this? You bet. God was kind enough to show me the answer in time. Her short life got me and the rest of my family back to church. I became active in church and not just another body in the service. I've served missions and she is an important part of my testimony. Her story has helped moved people to accept Christ as their savior. Her short life has had a large impact on my family's Christian life and the lives of others. That was her purpose. She fulfilled it wonderfully in a short time and was called back home to God.
    Sorry to hear of you loss, sales. The most difficult thing a person can endure is to outlive their child. It takes a huge amount of emotional strength to get past that. But, sales, I believe you are a Christian and take tremendous peace in the knowledge that you will have another daughter with which you will spend eternity.

    I am not posting this so much for your sake as for the sake of those who do not understand our views and faith.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Sorry to hear of you loss, sales. The most difficult thing a person can endure is to outlive their child. It takes a huge amount of emotional strength to get past that. But, sales, I believe you are a Christian and take tremendous peace in the knowledge that you will have another daughter with which you will spend eternity.

    I am not posting this so much for your sake as for the sake of those who do not understand our views and faith.
    CS, such stories are among the most sad things that anyone can hear. No matter if you have faith or not. Strength to you.

    However, Boot, I think I might understand... if only a little bit.

    Recently, something pretty bad happened to a friend. And while discussing it one person said, "there will be no reconciling this... no closure... no explanation that will satiisfy". The moment she said it, I admired her insight in to the human condition. She was absolutely right.

    For me, this fact was the exact reason that it was put on the back shelf in my mind. This is the act of a pragmatic. Not all of us are, and for those who are not, this fact would be the very reason that they dwell on the issue for weeks... perhaps months.

    In general, man has the need to explain the unexplainable. To rationalize the unreasonable. A belief in God can help many with this. I do not mean that to sound insulting in the slightest. No matter which path one takes, it is a perfectly human thing to do. We are not all the same.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  12. #12
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    I know that God takes care of me and is taking better care of Kymberly than I ever could have. 9 months after that loss my wife gave birth to twins. I was too tired and busy with them to keep grieving over Kymberly. God's way of helping me through it. I have to admit that I don't see how a non-believer can get through such things. Being pragmatic doesn't offer any comfort or hope, it's just a way to get by. God offers me both comfort and hope.

    That need to explain the unexplainable......That is the little part inside you that is searching for God. We all have free will but we also have the instinctive desire for God. Just my thoughts.....
    Never knock on Death's door. Ring the bell and run, he hates that.

    Views expressed here are my own and not neccessarily those of any company I am affiliated with.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by coordinatesales View Post
    I know that God takes care of me and is taking better care of Kymberly than I ever could have. 9 months after that loss my wife gave birth to twins. I was too tired and busy with them to keep grieving over Kymberly. God's way of helping me through it. I have to admit that I don't see how a non-believer can get through such things. Being pragmatic doesn't offer any comfort or hope, it's just a way to get by. God offers me both comfort and hope.

    That need to explain the unexplainable......That is the little part inside you that is searching for God. We all have free will but we also have the instinctive desire for God. Just my thoughts.....
    Yeah, well it is as hard to explain what being pragmatic is to you as it is for you to describe spirituality to me. I just don't get it.

    My comfort in hard times is my family. Without them, who knows... maybe I would have reached out to God at some time before this. Humans DO need comfort. That's why I am a helper and why many of us are. First of all because we've been there, second of all because we know that if we had not been helped when we needed it, our view of humanity would be something less than stellar.

    I see this in faces everyday. There is a woman I see everyday on the way to work that just has this hopeless look on her face. She displays "life sucks" on her face like a beacon. It makes me just so sad to see. I've tried to make eye contact with her... who knows... a smile and a wave can work wonders. No dice. I almost want to stop my car and give her a big hug, but in these times I am quite sure that it would lead to my arrest.

    At this time, I do not need God to get by. Maybe later in my life, if I were to find myself alone, that could change. Who knows what the future may bring?
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

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