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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by icchvac View Post
    So what makes you think you knew what my answer to those questions would be? It's just like Royc told me in another thread (or maybe it was this one?), you don't know me and have no idea what I would answer... blah blah whatever...
    Same situation here.
    Very well, then!

    Please describe for us how you have personally encountered Jesus in the flesh -or- how you have seen God -or- how you've already seen Heaven -or- how you have personally witnessed the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

    I'm all ears, bud.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  2. #28
    Scrogdog

    Very well, then!

    Please describe for us how you have personally encountered Jesus in the flesh

    I haven't
    -or- how you have seen God -or- how you've already seen Heaven -or- how you have personally witnessed the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

    Nope, none of those either.

    But I have felt the presence of the Holy Ghost at the time of my conversion and have benefited from His guidance several times since. I've also seen the result of ignoring that guidance. You probably won't believe that but neither do i expect you to. It's a wholly personal thing. As far as "the fulfillment of bible prophecy" goes, there's plenty of proof of that.

  3. #29
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    What happened to Adams first wife, Lilith?

  4. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by troyorr View Post
    What happened to Adams first wife, Lilith?
    I believe that story goes something like she refused to be subservient to Adam in some way and went off and ate from the tree of life and became some sort of goddess or demoness or whatever, but since that was in one of those books that didn't make it into the bible I'd say it's bs.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by icchvac View Post
    but since that was in one of those books that didn't make it into the bible I'd say it's bs.

    Sure, why not....... Like Staples easy button........

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by icchvac View Post
    Scrogdog

    Very well, then!

    Please describe for us how you have personally encountered Jesus in the flesh

    I haven't
    -or- how you have seen God -or- how you've already seen Heaven -or- how you have personally witnessed the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

    Nope, none of those either.

    But I have felt the presence of the Holy Ghost at the time of my conversion and have benefited from His guidance several times since. I've also seen the result of ignoring that guidance. You probably won't believe that but neither do i expect you to. It's a wholly personal thing. As far as "the fulfillment of bible prophecy" goes, there's plenty of proof of that.
    Ya know, icc, all one has to do to see prophecy coming true, is walk out the front door and look around; or listen to the 6 o'clock report on TV; or read a newspaper. It's all around for those who can see.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

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  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by icchvac View Post
    Scrogdog

    Very well, then!

    Please describe for us how you have personally encountered Jesus in the flesh

    I haven't
    -or- how you have seen God -or- how you've already seen Heaven -or- how you have personally witnessed the fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

    Nope, none of those either.

    But I have felt the presence of the Holy Ghost at the time of my conversion and have benefited from His guidance several times since. I've also seen the result of ignoring that guidance. You probably won't believe that but neither do i expect you to. It's a wholly personal thing. As far as "the fulfillment of bible prophecy" goes, there's plenty of proof of that.
    Proof? Depends on your standard of what "proof" is. The simple fact is that the dead sea scrolls show precisely what happens when like-minded men full of agenda get together. According to them, they found a temple where the scrolls were found. As soon as unbiased researchers hit the scene, the temple somehow turned in to a pottery factory.

    That and the fact that they would not allow free thinkers in to examine things as well for many, many years is extremely telling in terms of how these things go.

    This is precisely why I view the canonization of the bible as quite a load of crap. And the men who wrote the bible were certainly full of agenda... divinely inspired or not.

    I make no claim of evil intent, however. This is simply what men do. The human condition. That is also why Robo's claim that the OT was held word-for-word in the minds of men for hundreds or thousands of years is utterly ridiculous, not to mention flat-out impossible.

    In any case, the point was that it seems funny that you would criticize ANY position that has no tangibles, as you are very much in the same boat.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Ya know, icc, all one has to do to see prophecy coming true, is walk out the front door and look around; or listen to the 6 o'clock report on TV; or read a newspaper. It's all around for those who can see.
    If this is what is seen as "proof", then I rest my case with a smile.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    If this is what is seen as "proof", then I rest my case with a smile.
    That's because you are unaware of prophecy.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    That's because you are unaware of prophecy.
    Am I?

    Here is how prophecy goes. Someone claims that the end of the world will occur on a given date. It doesn’t happen. Then the back peddling comes. We saw the signs wrong… whatever.

    If the world WERE to actually end some day, how many groups (that survived ) would call it a fulfillment of prophecy? Many! We’d hear, “see, I told you!!!!” and the prophet(s) would be thought of as a visionary seer (forget that he was wrong 98,567 times before he was right).

    This is the constant and in many cases *documented* course that so-called prophets take. It’s completely bogus.

    Let me ask you something, Boot. Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that I am right. That the bible was created and inspired only by men. Men that took a look at the world around them and the moral decline of the Roman Empire. Men that that were well-versed in the prophecies in the OT. Men that had a vision of how to return morality to the world.

    Just how difficult do you think it would have been to find a child that suited the bill (meaning he "fit" prophecy) and make him in to a divine prophet? I believe that Jesus was not divine but he BELIEVED that he was, because he was indoctrinated to believe it from a very young age. I know you disagree, but that is not the point.

    How difficult do you think that would be?
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  11. #37
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    Am I?

    Here is how prophecy goes. Someone claims that the end of the world will occur on a given date. It doesn’t happen. Then the back peddling comes. We saw the signs wrong… whatever.

    Maybe I should have said Biblical prophecy. Nowhere will you find in Scripture a date given for the end of the world. And anyone who gives a date is called by Scripture a false prophet.

    If the world WERE to actually end some day, how many groups (that survived ) would call it a fulfillment of prophecy? Many! We’d hear, “see, I told you!!!!” and the prophet(s) would be thought of as a visionary seer (forget that he was wrong 98,567 times before he was right).

    Then they would be lying. Obviously.

    This is the constant and in many cases *documented* course that so-called prophets take. It’s completely bogus.

    Not so for Biblical prophecy.

    Let me ask you something, Boot. Let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that I am right. That the bible was created and inspired only by men. Men that took a look at the world around them and the moral decline of the Roman Empire. Men that that were well-versed in the prophecies in the OT. Men that had a vision of how to return morality to the world.

    Just how difficult do you think it would have been to find a child that suited the bill (meaning he "fit" prophecy) and make him in to a divine prophet? I believe that Jesus was not divine but he BELIEVED that he was, because he was indoctrinated to believe it from a very young age. I know you disagree, but that is not the point.

    The fallacy of your scenario is that those who studied the OT totally wrote Jesus off. They are the ones who had Him brought up on charges and crucified.

    How difficult do you think that would be?

    Actually, very difficult. Just because you BELIEVE you are the Messiah does not make you able to do those things Jesus did. He made the lame walk and the blind see. He was resurrected after 3 days in the grave.

    How difficult do you think THAT would be?
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Actually, very difficult. Just because you BELIEVE you are the Messiah does not make you able to do those things Jesus did. He made the lame walk and the blind see. He was resurrected after 3 days in the grave.

    How difficult do you think THAT would be?
    In my mind... impossible. Maybe it wouldn't be if we saw things like that actually going on in the world around us. But we don't. That's why extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and proof, that is, more than just words on paper saying so. I mean, if I am going to believe that, why wouldn't I believe in ANYTHING that people say that they see? Alien abductions? Vampires? What's the difference?

    That such things are impossible is also the very reason for many other entries in the bible, in my mind. Sorry for not remembering the exact wording, but Jesus, after his supposed resurrection, visted a doubting Apostle (Thomas?... maybe Paul... I forget) and spoke to him and answered questions. Soon after that passage something along the lines of "those who believe without verification are even further (or more) blessed" appears.

    This plays directly to the human condition. Of course, if I am right, the writers of the bible knew full well there would be no verifications. So, how better to make people accept than to make the claim that blind faith somehow puts you in some sort of superior mode? Classic human button pushing there.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    In my mind... impossible. Maybe it wouldn't be if we saw things like that actually going on in the world around us. But we don't. That's why extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and proof, that is, more than just words on paper saying so. I mean, if I am going to believe that, why wouldn't I believe in ANYTHING that people say that they see? Alien abductions? Vampires? What's the difference?

    That such things are impossible is also the very reason for many other entries in the bible, in my mind. Sorry for not remembering the exact wording, but Jesus, after his supposed resurrection, visted a doubting Apostle (Thomas?... maybe Paul... I forget) and spoke to him and answered questions. Soon after that passage something along the lines of "those who believe without verification are even further (or more) blessed" appears.

    This plays directly to the human condition. Of course, if I am right, the writers of the bible knew full well there would be no verifications. So, how better to make people accept than to make the claim that blind faith somehow puts you in some sort of superior mode? Classic human button pushing there.
    Well, Scrog, you see people killed in the movies everyday. What do you believe about them? What you seem to be saying is seeing is believing. I submit to you that one has not necessarily to do with the other.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

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