Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 46
  1. #1

    bait & switched? R22 to 410a valve job

    I recently discovered that the cooling end of my home renovation has gone from "green" to "black." I asked for the best cooling units I could have for my split system (two-zoned) renovated townhouse. However, what I received installed is not. They are Lennox CBU-18/30 air handlers and ACD13-18/30 air conditioners. The problem is that they use R22 versus 410a. I was extremely disappointed. The ARI puts them at 13 SEER, but the refrigerant is a LEED killer. And I did not spend all of this money, over XXXXX, for new ductwork runs, a 90% gas boiler along with an in-direct tank, two air handlers, two ac units and Radson wall mounted radiators with individual thermostatic valves to have r22 in the house. It's 2007, not 1957.

    Upon complaint the HVAC contractor put a high price on replacing them with cbx27-18/30 and ACX14-18/30 units. I believe because he would rather sub-out the valves on all four units to run on 410a. But, I am unsure whether that will work. And, these are new units. And the job is not done. And what will that do to my Lennox warranty. How badly am I being screwed?

    Lastly, what is wrong about giving detailed prices? I know every blue book value of a car. Every professional bills out their time to at least 15 minute increments. Why the secrecy? So the average consumer can be bilked? I'm all in favor of making a profit. But a killing...that is unethical.
    Last edited by HeyBob; 11-25-2007 at 05:45 AM. Reason: Removed Pricing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Did you specify R410a? What is in your contract?

    As far as pricing goes, there are way too many variables in HVAC to have standard pricing for systems.

    If you feel we are just out to bilk you, you may want to be more specific in what you think you want.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Panama City, FL
    Posts
    739
    You must have had something in writing, with that amount of work. What did the description or specification of materials list?
    Swapping the TXVs and refrigerant isn't an option w/o replacing the condensers and possibly the refrigerant linesets.

    Are you happy with the rest of their work?
    You can't learn a thing with your mouth open.

  4. #4
    I relied on the professional expertise of my HVAC contractor on the refrigerant. I asked for the "best" and this builder's grade enviro-killer is what I got. How was I to know that in the 21st century R22 is still available for new installations. Why would it? Stupid really.

    Pricing: That is bull****. Caveats and variables can be listed depending on location of residence, unit locations and hook-up concerns. At a minimum the unit costs could be offered. That should not be variable.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Panama City, FL
    Posts
    739
    So did you just tell him to go for it and keep it under a 100 grand?
    Not trying to be too facetious, but you must have had some type of contract.
    Did you not?
    You can't learn a thing with your mouth open.

  6. #6
    Of course we had a contract. But how was I supposed to know what CBU blah, blah, blah means? He never educated me on the product. Instead, I get the lowest when I should of gotten the best. Or at least options. It's America. Options are what we are about.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Quote Originally Posted by ductaped View Post
    I relied on the professional expertise of my HVAC contractor on the refrigerant. I asked for the "best" and this builder's grade enviro-killer is what I got. How was I to know that in the 21st century R22 is still available for new installations. Why would it? Stupid really.

    Pricing: That is bull****. Caveats and variables can be listed depending on location of residence, unit locations and hook-up concerns. At a minimum the unit costs could be offered. That should not be variable.
    You have issues that will not be resolved here. It appears that all you want to do is to complain. There is nothing wrong with R22 and if you felt this strongly about it you would have done something in the beginning of this project.

    Sounds like you are now trying to find reasons to get out of your end of the responsiblity to pay for what you have contracted for.

    Since you thing what I have offered on pricing is BS, why the hell did you ask the question? Nothing we tell you will be believed by you, so why come here and waste our time with "your" bs?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #8
    typical.
    You see, you are all alike.
    And are to blame.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Panama City, FL
    Posts
    739
    Well, you sound to me like a person who knows what he wants. This concern about the refrigerant must not have gotten through. I'm sure you know the details and timelines about phaseout by now.
    A properly installed system with r-22 does not pose a threat to the environment as long as it's contained within a leak free system.
    You are entitled to get what you paid for. Sleep on it and decide how you can get what you expected without losing your temper.
    You can't learn a thing with your mouth open.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Quote Originally Posted by ductaped View Post
    Of course we had a contract. But how was I supposed to know what CBU blah, blah, blah means? He never educated me on the product. Instead, I get the lowest when I should of gotten the best. Or at least options. It's America. Options are what we are about.
    You are the one who went into this uneducated and you are responsible for your own degree of intellect. Yes, it is America. You have the right do your homework before you sign a contract, not to complain afterward when you think you made a mistake.....oh, sorry, you think you were duped.

    There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with your system. We can't fix what isn't broken.

    I have my choice of any system I want at a greatly reduced cost and I just put a R22, 13 SEER system in my home.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,944
    Quote Originally Posted by ductaped View Post
    typical.
    You see, you are all alike.
    And are to blame.
    That's right; there is always someone else to blame. Whatever. Sorry we disapoint you so. You should never have to take any responsibility in life as long as there is someone else to blame.

    What is really tragic is that you don't even have a viable complaint about something being wrong with your system.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    kalamazoo,mich
    Posts
    2,174
    Wow I didn't know algore would visit us on this lowly hvac website. Why are you so concerned about a "green" system, When you live in a townhouse that requires two systems....... You haven't told us where you live, so maybe your contractor put in a 13 SEER system, because that would be the best for your climate. It's not much use putting in a 19 SEER system, if the a/c is only on 2 months a year.
    Have you hugged the Earth today?
    Donny Baker rules

  13. #13
    whatever happened to the "customer is always right?"
    Whatever happened to customer satisfaction?

    Look, I was duped.
    The customer only knows what is offered to them.
    All of this stuff is kept secret for this very reason.
    It protects the contractor while giving them the most price cushion.

    And why, in the 21st century, would you install an r22 system in your own home?
    Do you not care about the environment?
    Or are you that cheap?

    Yes, r22 is harmless if it is contained.
    IF is the operative word.
    Accidents happen.
    It will leak.
    Not now, not tomorrow.
    But it will.
    And even your little amount has a cumulative effect.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event