New Burnham Boiler

[tuckerin]

The amount of baseboard is indicative of how much heat you could supply, not how much you actually need, Manual J calculations do that. As for installing new boiler I would ask the techs that are pushing yesteryears technology (80%+) how much better than 92-94% do they think will be available in the next ten years. I prefere the Munchkin boiler (properly installed) with its modulating burner to meet the ever changing conditions it is a real fuel saver

[rschrei518]

So if i go with the pvg5 should i have a priority for the indirect or should i not have priority for indirect. I really do not want a unit which short cycles because once it's installed it is too late.

I would have gone with a modulating boiler but i am getting very very good deal on pvg through gas company. If i went with modulating boiler i probably wouldn't make my money back for a long time.

The pm;u thing i am worried about is venting through the wall and my cedar. Which termination do you recommond for it i don't want something that sticks out far but i also don't want something that will damage my house. Please let me know which one you think will be best for my circumstances.
http://www.ventingstore.com/images/t...ions-small.jpg

I like the way the termination coupling looks but will it be good for my house?

I had another question i'm in the process of requesting a meter to be brought to my house for gas any of you guys know the limitations of where a meter can be placed. I wanted to place it next to my electric meter but my plumber says it can't be near it. Is this true? What He also says it can't be near my AC condenser is this true? How Far does it have to be from these items?

I am in Long Island New York. I called keyspan and none of the phone reps don't know anything. They told me to wait until guy comes to survey house but i would like to have an idea on where it is going to go beforehand any ideas?

[beenthere]

I prefer the coupling.

Around here, the gas company tells us where the meter is going to be. We have no choice.
Min of 36" from electrical devices.

[rschrei518]

I was just looking through the book for the pvg and it shows a picture of a pipe on a 45 degree angle sticking out of my house so i am starting to wonder do i have a choice on which termination i use? I am hopeing that i can terminate a different way because that 45 degree thing looks ugly any thoughts? Here is the book look at page 13 and 14
http://www.burnham.com/PDF/PVG_I&O.pdf


I am starting to think about this boiler sizing thing again. My current boiler which is oil fired does not shortcycle and seems to be proper size. I did a little research and was able to find out the input from the nozzle size it is a .87 which i believe is 120,000 btu's but the output must be much lower then that because it is 40 years old. There are no labels on it. I am starting to think maybe the pvg4 would be better because i thing pvg5 may shortcycle because it may be too big. What should i do Should i go with the pvg5 and disconnect the priority switch for the indirect so the indirect at times can pick up the rest of the btu's or should i go with pvg4 with priority. Plumber keeps telling me that i should not worry about it But if the thing does shortcycle i know i will not be able to sleep at night for the next 10 years.

What does I=B=R rating mean?

[beenthere]

Institute of Boiler and Radiator Manufacturers.

I think you mean you current boiler has a .85 GPH nozzle.
Which is the same nozzle that the PV5 has. It is more eeficient. I doubt you would notice a short cycling effect.
The choice is yours.

[rschrei518]

Ok i am going to take your advice here i am going to go with the pvg5 but should i put the indirect on a priority or not?

And i was curious if i can change the al29-4c termination method with the pvg? I was just looking through the book for the pvg and it shows a picture of a pipe on a 45 degree angle sticking out of my house so i am starting to wonder do i have a choice on which termination i use? I am hopeing that i can terminate a different way because that 45 degree thing looks ugly any thoughts? Here is the book look at page 13 and 14
http://www.burnham.com/PDF/PVG_I&O.pdf

[johnsp]

You need to do a real heat loss calc on the house. multipling 600 BTU x 170
is the max output of the radiation with 180 degree boiler water, not what the house needs.

IMO The PVG only holds 4 gal of water, and you only have about 10 gal of water in your pipes. With only 1 zone calling in warm weather you will short cycle. I'd rather have the boiler run longer and the indirect on priority.

For the 1 or 2 weeks the temps go to single digits (do they anymore?), the boiler will run almost constantly. SO what? You're saving on gas the rest of the year. Worse case, don't set back the thermostat durring very cold weather. It's easier for the boiler to maintain a temp level then try to catch back up.

Get more estimates on the liner. You have a chimney, use it! I would only
direct vent with a mod/con boiler that can vent with PVC pipe. Mention the
brand name: "z-flex" . Rigid Z-flex pipes are pricey since each piece has a gas tight twist locking flange. The 1 piece flexable liner should not be that much more then a stainless flex liner. The cap and connection to the boiler are just pricier.

[beenthere]

They have a straight termination also. You don't have to use the 45.

[beenthere]

With the PV5 he could have some 5 minute burner cycles when its 60* out side.
But the PV4 would also have some 5 minute burner cycles.
Its only a 12,000 btu diff between them.

Definitely should have a load calc. But around here, houses seldom have more baseboard then they need.


Priority for the indirect.

[rschrei518]

Thanks for your Advice guys. You have no idea how much i appreciate your advice and i am sorry if we are going in circles.

I think i am going to go with the PVG4 because i think that my current boiler is oversized because when i run one zone on boiler it has short cycles maybe 10 minutes on 7 minutes off over and over but when i have 2 zones on boiler runs continiously. My plumber says if i want to go with pvg4 no problem but he says if it is undersized he dosn't want to hear it. He claims they can't do anything if the boiler is undersized but he says if it is oversized and shortcycling they can reduce the burner orifices or reduce flame to bring down the btu's. Is this something you recommond? Should i go with pvg5 and if boiler is shortcycling have guy come back and put smaller burner orfices on. He says this is a common practice on oversized boilers. What do you guys recommond

[beenthere]

10 minutes on, 7 off, is less then 4 CPH.
Not a bad cycle rate.

If your current boiler was oversized, it wouldn't run continiously when both zones are calling.

[johnsp]

Any plans to insulate or change windows, doors, etc. ? Another reason not to oversize.
If you go with the 5, I suggest getting an aquastat that can have a higher differential then just 10 degrees, to allow the boiler to cycle longer.

If you're old oil boiler had 10 or 15 gallons of water in it, it probably never short cycled
since it had all that mass to heat up. I'd do anything to save gas, to save money.

[rschrei518]

No plans anytime soon to reinsulate or change windows or doors or really anything anytime soon. That aquastat sounds like a good idea. My question is if i set high limit for 180 and differential to 30 what temp will it shutoff at will it stop at 180 and go back on at 150 or can it maintain 210 degrees which i do not want? what do you think Book for unit says the pvg has a L4080D Aquastat does this have an adjustable differential?

[beenthere]

On that limit, the temp setting is the high event and the diff is the low event.

Or, set at 180, it shuts the burner off at 180, and brings it back on at 150.

[rschrei518]

I Was just doing a little research and came across the Beckett Heat Manager. This looks like it is the solution to all my problems. Is It? Does it do everything it says it is going to do? Does it really reduce the number of boiler cycles? What i am thinking is i should install one of these on pvg 5 and it can't shortcycle what do you guys think?

I read this on heat manager websiteI just read this on website for Heat manager

The ideal application is a large, oversized boiler with many heating zones and fin tube
baseboards. This is because a boiler must be sized to heat all zones at once if necessary, but it’s
very rare that all zones are calling for heat at once. When only one or two zones are calling, it
further amplifies the oversizing of the boiler. The HeatManager will compensate for the
oversizing and will eliminate short-cycling.

What do you think?

[beenthere]

No.
Its an ok device, but I wouldn't use it on a baseboard system.

[rschrei518]

But according to the book for the beckett heat manager this is what it says The ideal application is a large, oversized boiler with many heating zones and fin tube baseboards. The reviews i have came across look promising people see savings between 10% and 25%

[beenthere]

The PV5 won't be a large over sized boiler.
It doesn't hold but 4 or 5 gals of water. The rest of your system holds maybe 10 gals.
If boiler held 20+ gals of water, you might see a benifit.
When its down around 0* outside, the heat manager will not do much for boiler cycling on a small water volume boiler like the PV5.


Your over thinking the system before the new boiler is installed.

[johnsp]

an out door reset control like a tekmar over the heat manager. It has a real out door
temp sensor and can vary the differential so you can allow a 15 or 20 degree change before firing the boiler again. Only real way to fix too big a boiler that can't modulate is to put a buffer tank in. But since you're getting the boiler, get the right size! For 1/2 the year you'll be running the boiler to heat the indirect only, so why oversize with the PV5? Just have the PV4 with the indirect on priority.

[rschrei518]

Have another issue here i had a few chimney companys stop by the house for estimates on AL29-4C and they are telling me that for some reason they can't put liner in my chimney i think because it is not a straight up and down run I think. One guy said that it could be done but it would not be cheap they would have to open up parts of the sides of the chimney. He recommonded i sidewall vent but Johnsp recommonded againist it.
is it really that bad? I don't know what to do here Will the sidewall vent damage my painted cedar siding? How Noisy is the power vent really? Another problem i am thinking could happen is there is condensation which drips out and can freeze? To me i feel it would be better to run al29-4c liner up chimney but the chimney guys i brought in says it is not plausable with my chimney What do you guys recommond?

Anyone out there sidewall vent and regret doing it or having problems with noise or damage or anything?


I was just thinking about something else here i was just curious does the power vent fan use a lot of electricity?