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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    741

    ALC setpoints not BACnet?

    I am integrating to a couple ALC sites. The local ALC company is telling me that they cannot make the setpoints BACnet available. I cant even see them let alone change them. So for example i will see the points for a VAV box, i will see space temp, damper position, etc... but i cant see what the setpoint for the room is set at.

    Guess i am at a loss for why they say it cant be done, what would be the point of me BACneting to their equipment if i cant change simple setpoints or even see what the setpoint is set at.

    Are they giving me the run around because it will take bunch of hours to reprogram or is this just not possible with certain controllers?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Oahu, Hawaii
    Posts
    107
    By default, all the physical I/O points, alarms,trends, schedule are bacnet.
    Since the rest of the program is custom made, it depends if the programmer used bacnet BV,AV microblocks for program settings/ parameters. These bacnet BV,AV microblocks are visible over the network. If the customer is requiring certain settings to be visable for integration, they may need to add some microblocks to the custom program. It would not be a very big deal to add to the program.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    258
    You are probably integrating to an older Eikon program, or as Jeff said, it was not written that way. He's right that it's no big deal to change it, but you have to concider how many units are effected, are any of these units critical and can't be shut down, was he paid or required to make them visible. It sounds like he's looking for a change order or doesn't want to give up his presence at the site.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    252
    My ALC dealer has ALWAYS said he can do anything I can think of.

    Even on my old Supervision version he can still support me and take care of any and all problems just as he can with Webctrl.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    rotaryfrk, that's funny....I tell my customers the same exact thing! Here I thought that I was being original...LOL

    When I said that you are probably integrating to an older program, I didn't mean that it couldn't be rewritten to make it work, but in the "old days" BacNet didn't exist or we didn't write the programs as BacNet just because we were used to doing it the other way. When you see how easy a BacNet translation is done and because translations are becoming much more common now, it makes sense to write everything like that now.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod53 View Post
    You are probably integrating to an older Eikon program, or as Jeff said, it was not written that way. He's right that it's no big deal to change it, but you have to concider how many units are effected, are any of these units critical and can't be shut down, was he paid or required to make them visible. It sounds like he's looking for a change order or doesn't want to give up his presence at the site.
    Yes from looking at the Logic through the Webctrl it states in the header at the top it is Eikon Version 3.0. Looking at the logic best i can tell is they are using a blue block called Zone Setpt 1 - Plus with Learning Adaptive Opt Start. That outputs the adjusted setpoint? Can you enlighten me on this a little for the process that would require to go to BACnet with this setup, so i know what time is involved for them to reprogram one unit?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    258
    I personally have never had to do that, I have read/write to other vendors but it's not been my scope to have others read/write to me. After looking at the problem I see what they mean, you could easily open that program in Eikon and add a BacNet object and be able to see what the HTG and CLG setpoints are in Exec 4. If you are using a RSOC (8 wire) type thermostat, add a BacNet object to the HT or CL outputs of your setpoint microblock you could read that data into the other system. As far as writing, there is no capability to give the setpoint microblock a BacNet address.

    What kind of thermostat are you using RSOC/LogiStat/RS stat? Below is what they say about using a Logistat or RS Stat over BacNet, it appears that you need to be using at least Exec 6 or Exec B equipment (ie: U or ZN, cards not Z cards) to make this work.

    Network Visible?
    When you set Network Visible? to Yes, the microblock's output is visible to third-party equipment.

    Description
    Description is the BACnet visible description property which may contain any items that you choose.
    Last edited by hotrod53; 01-07-2008 at 06:40 PM.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    741
    Ok here is a screen shot of some of the programming of a ZN341v+. They have the following controllers through out the site:

    M4106p
    ZN551
    SE6104
    ZN341v+
    M880nx
    S6104
    M220nx
    M8102

    So from your reply i know that setpoints could be made Bacnet by adding the AV block that the Htsp and Clsp could write to, which wouldnt be hard.

    But to take a bacnet setpoint input into the controller can they modify this program to do it by making a AV Bacnet block and inputing it into some existing block or by adding a different block?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Everything that you have there is fairly new. You'll have to be using Logistats or RS thermostats to make this work or in the case of the M modules you can just add the BacNet points to the setpoint inputs if you're not using a zone microblock, where you run into trouble is with the Z (not ZN) stuff which you don't have. Click on your Logistat or RS thermostat on your LOGIC page and enable NETWORK VISIBLE, that will be your starting point.

    By adding the AV point you will be able to READ what the setpoint is, but that won't help you as far as writing to it. You should be able to make the Logistat or RS NETWORK VISIBLE to find how to write to it thru BacNet.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    189
    well your alc dealer is no dummy, that's for sure. he or she opted to not use ALC's built-in Airflow Block (for VAV control) but instead used OCL to create a custom airflow block. I'd love to see that block live in operation.

    Do you know what functionality that block provides that the standard Air Flow block didn't provide?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    258
    +1 Drafty, quite complicated and probably a special application. It still must be somewhat generic since I see that he has -59 for a discharge temp, obviously there isn't a sensor connected. He does have Logistats so he should be able to make it network visible.

    Did you click on the Logistat (thermostat looking thing) on the logic page and choose network visible? I don't know how the third party does it in this case, but in ALC we do a discover and it finds the BacNet points, that data gives you the setup data.
    HotRod


    Controls..some days your a hero, some days your a zero. Direct acting since 1992.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    741
    I click ont he Logistat in the logic view. It comes up with a window and i click on Details. When i look at the bottom of this page it is Enabled for Network Visable, but the only point it allows in the actual Zone Temp. Which i do see when i scan the network on my software. But i dont see anywhere in the details that relates to making setpoints network visable.

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