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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    317

    Unhappy Rising cost of home heating oil

    Due to the ever increasing price of home heating oil.
    Would it be a good idea to install a low mass "3" pass boiler such as...
    the burnham "LE" or the CROWN-FREEPORT ?? or a Columbia "3" pass boiler
    or a Thermo-dynamics or last but not least ???????
    an "EK" system "2000" ?????????

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,328

    Smile Rates are ? in N.Y.

    Quote Originally Posted by uncle buck View Post
    Due to the ever increasing price of home heating oil.
    Would it be a good idea to install a low mass "3" pass boiler such as...
    the burnham "LE" or the CROWN-FREEPORT ?? or a Columbia "3" pass boiler
    or a Thermo-dynamics or last but not least ???????
    an "EK" system "2000" ?????????
    Look at the Bigger Picture ... What are your utility/fuel rates?
    Electric ( kw = 3413 BTU )
    Oil ( 130,000 x 90% = 117,000 BTU /gal)
    Natural Gas ( therm = 100,000 BTU )

    Heat Pump C.O.P. might be ~3 for > 30' F.
    Use ~ 80 - 90% efficiency for furnaces and
    determine cost of 100,000 BTU.

    i.e.
    1. Natural Gas $1.30 per therm = $1.43 per 100,000 BTU output.
    2. Oil at $2.50 per gal = $2.14 per 100,000 BTU output
    3. Electric at $0.15 / kW = _______________ $ 4.395 / 100,000 BTU
    100,000 BTU/ 3413 BTU/ kw = 29.3 kW

    with C.O.P. 3 ... $1.46
    So you need to know C.O.P. at several steps in the operating range ( 28'F - 60'F) and number of hours in the selected temperature range.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    317

    Unhappy oil cost

    heat pump in n.y. not economically viable Electric costs on long island are very high.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996

    I have an LE

    only because it was top flued and I didn't have the space for a 3 pass rear vented boiler. The Biasi is a great 3 pass CI boiler, usually cheaper then buderus and lower volume. I suggest getting an indirect for hot water, especially if you only have copper fin tube BB in the house. I'd suggest an outdoor reset control with a priority control on the indirect. The sectional CI boilers offer you more size ranges while the steel models are lighter but usually only come in one size and just get fired at different rates. Lower efficencies at higher firing rates.

    The EK is a great concept, but the cheaper components: glass lined booster tank, Beckett burner, don't justify the price IMO.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,328

    Thumbs up Compare ...

    Quote Originally Posted by uncle buck View Post
    heat pump in n.y. not economically viable Electric costs on long island are very high.
    So Why do some Long Islanders install Water Source Heat Pumps?

    Well ... ... ... $0.22 / kW at C.O.P. 4. = Effectively $0.055 /kW
    _______ .055 * 29.3 = $1.61 which is
    Still ~ 25 % less than oil at $2.50 / Gallon

    C.O.P. = 4 +/- from

    http://www.climatemaster.com/share/R...tion_4_TTS.pdf
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996

    The aveage L.I'.er

    Doesn't have the 10 grand for drilling a well for a GSHP. When our property is only 50 or 60 ft wide, it's hard to get the drilling equipment into the backyard. 1000 sq ft back yards and the cess pools makes trenching the tubing around the property unlikely.

    Oil heat is still King on LI, where only about 75% of homes have access to NG piping.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    91
    we only have a 25' wide lot ... and were able to put in the vertical borehole for a GSHP without any problems


    So long as the drilling rig can get up your street, it's doable

    By the way, we previously had an oil boiler - with the rise in the price of oil, I'm sure glad we got rid of that beast (and associated accident-waiting-to-happen-oil-tank-in-the-basement).

    Paul in Montreal.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    317

    continuation

    I have an acre and 1/4 however...I have a 16 year old burnham "V-7"
    conventional type boiler I just replaced my phase "3" in january with a
    "VAUGHN" stone lined Indirect.
    I have all baseboard heat...Zone # 1 "23-ft high-output baseboard for large room which is the kitchen,diningroom,livingroom....
    Zone # 2 49-ft standard baseboard for 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom.
    Zone # 3 40-ft standard baseboard for a large den and bathroom in basement.
    Zone # 4 is a new Vaughn indirect....

    4 of my friends and quite a few of my co-workers have put in Crown freeports
    in their homes and are satisfied with the oil savings,the ease of cleaning and the smart design of this boiler....
    Yes my boiler room is small however if I relocate my indirect to an unfinished area of my basement "20-ft" away and insulate my pipes I should be able to fit the crown in the boiler room..

    Even if fuel oil was cheap !!!! a conventional boilers design seems outdated and "STUPID" !!!!!!!! The "3" pass design is brilliant...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996

    Crown's OK

    Just they require return temp to be over 130 degrees I think. Biasi, Burnham MPO, etc. handle lower temps better. All of the steel boilers you mentioned are of a 2 pass design: the flue gases bounce off the back wall and around the pressure vessel through flue tubes all around the outer side of the boiler.
    Low water temps produce scale and rust around the turbulators. With 4 zones you might need a larger boiler, check the AFUE numbers, you'll see better numbers on the larger 3 pass CI boilers.

    What happened to the Phase #?


    Pyropaul: What does the drilling cost up in Canada. Parts of Long Island, you'll hit the water table 20-50 ft down. Not sure if thats ideal for GS.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    317

    Question the phase "3"

    when my heating system was 15 years old I started to get trickling from the boiler relief valve the boiler pressure was going up.

    My friend who is an oil tech told me the phase 3 's develped leaks. after i removed the phase "3" I drained it put access fittings on the domestic stubs and pressurized it with nitrogen to "50" psi...4 hours later my guages still read 50 psi though...... however my own fault 15 years prior when I had installed
    the phase "3" I failed to install an expansion tank on the domestic side of the indirect... Did that contribute to the demise of the Phase "3" ??????
    On my Vaughn I have an expansion tank on the domestic side.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,996

    Hmm

    I guess you need to know what your Domestic water line pressure is. Some areas do have high chlorine levels and this eats the Stainless over time. The Vaughn is better for harsh water, but watch the gasket on the coil. I hear those sometime leak also. BTW the 3 pass Columbia has a huge water jacket, holds like 25 gal! Probably since it offers a tankless coil option. I stay away from boilers with tankless coil options. Even a bolted cover is an opporunity for a leak down the road.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by johnsp View Post
    Pyropaul: What does the drilling cost up in Canada. Parts of Long Island, you'll hit the water table 20-50 ft down. Not sure if thats ideal for GS.
    We paid $14 a foot on one project and $17 a foot on another. Hitting the water table is probably a good thing as the heat transfer capacity of wet ground is better than dry.

    Paul.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    149
    If it were mine, I'd get a geothermal heat pump. In so far as your electric rates, everyplace else isn't far behind (mostly thanks to deregulation and anti-nuke types). If you don't like your electric rates, get some solar panels and put up a windmill.

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