View Poll Results: would you call him/her a Christian

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  • yes: Christian

    34 72.34%
  • no: not a Christian

    13 27.66%
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  1. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    If you say that Jesus resurrected himself, then he didn't really die at all. That would mean there was no sacrifice.
    Not true at all. His body died, as documented by Roman records. His spirit was separated from God the Father, which is the definition of spiritual death and was confirmed by His call from the cross, "Eloi, Eloi. Lema sabachthani?", which means, "My God, My God. Why has Thou forsaken me?".

    So you see, Sys. He died physically and spiritually. Sacrifice was perfect and complete. As He said in His dying breath, "Tetelestai." "It is finished" or more accurately, "Paid in full."
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  2. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I think booty would be the first to state that he is not the shepard.
    Spot on, Robo. I do not qualify as a shepherd. Not even close to it.

    But we all "qualify" for grace, salvation, and mercy. It's just a matter of submitting ourselves to collect on that bounty.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  3. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Not true at all. His body died, as documented by Roman records. His spirit was separated from God the Father, which is the definition of spiritual death and was confirmed by His call from the cross, "Eloi, Eloi. Lema sabachthani?", which means, "My God, My God. Why has Thou forsaken me?".

    So you see, Sys. He died physically and spiritually. Sacrifice was perfect and complete. As He said in His dying breath, "Tetelestai." "It is finished" or more accurately, "Paid in full."
    I believe Jesus died.
    However, God cannot die. He is eternal. Are you trying to say Jesus is not eternal? Perhaps you can clarify his "spirit was separated from God the Father". In what way was he separated?

  4. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    I believe Jesus died.
    However, God cannot die. He is eternal. Are you trying to say Jesus is not eternal? Perhaps you can clarify his "spirit was separated from God the Father". In what way was he separated?
    Apparently, you don't understand the meaning of "to die". And neither do you understand God's capabilities.

    God, in all 3 Persons is spiritual in nature. However, God the Son became a man in the fleshly sense. His body died (physical death) but His spirit continued to exist. However, to die spiritually means to be where God is not. Christ died spiritually...went where God the Father is not. (And naturally you think you have me where you want me. But the fact is, I freely admit I have a hard time getting my head around the Eternal God in His 3 Persons. But truth does not require one's understanding to be truth.)

    Clarifying certain aspects of God defies human language. But we know enough about Him to gain citizenship in His Kingdom.

    Hell was created specifically for Lucifer (renamed satan). It was created because God was everywhere and satan had to be put in a place where God was not.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  5. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post
    (sorry man, but I cant help myself...)



    sheep flock, if you're in a herd you're in the wrong group
    Good catch. That was my little test to see who was really Christian

    Either that or I have been quite tired since mrbill forced me to drink so much tequila in Texas.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    If you say that Jesus resurrected himself, then he didn't really die at all. That would mean there was no sacrifice.
    The resurrection was of the mortal body not the spiritual soul. Trying to pull these cheesy parlor tricks on those of faith is really pretty pathetic.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    I believe Jesus died.
    However, God cannot die. He is eternal. Are you trying to say Jesus is not eternal? Perhaps you can clarify his "spirit was separated from God the Father". In what way was he separated?
    We are all spiritual beings on a temporary mortal journey. Just as all of us are spiritual so was Jesus of Nazareth. Along with being a mortal being, Jesus of Nazareth was spiritually God.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    The resurrection was of the mortal body not the spiritual soul. Trying to pull these cheesy parlor tricks on those of faith is really pretty pathetic.
    You make a great point, Robo. But I am compelled to point out that Christ was resurrected spiritually as well as physically. And He is the ONLY Person to be resurrected spiritually after a physical death.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  9. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Not true at all. His body died, as documented by Roman records. His spirit was separated from God the Father, which is the definition of spiritual death and was confirmed by His call from the cross, "Eloi, Eloi. Lema sabachthani?", which means, "My God, My God. Why has Thou forsaken me?".
    Christ did not feel abandoned by God. He felt heartbreak because he had been with him his entire life and then had to endure detachment from God briefly.


    So you see, Sys. He died physically and spiritually. Sacrifice was perfect and complete. As He said in His dying breath, "Tetelestai." "It is finished" or more accurately, "Paid in full."
    He said "it is finished" meaning that he had fulfilled God's purpose for him on Earth. You can interpret it to mean he paid a debt, but that's not what he said.

  10. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillbilly View Post
    Christ did not feel abandoned by God. He felt heartbreak because he had been with him his entire life and then had to endure detachment from God briefly.



    He said "it is finished" meaning that he had fulfilled God's purpose for him on Earth. You can interpret it to mean he paid a debt, but that's not what he said.
    Did someone say He felt abandoned?

    "Tetelestai" is a word stamped on debts in 1st century Jerusalem which meant the debt had been paid in full.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Apparently, you don't understand the meaning of "to die". And neither do you understand God's capabilities.

    God, in all 3 Persons is spiritual in nature. However, God the Son became a man in the fleshly sense. His body died (physical death) but His spirit continued to exist. However, to die spiritually means to be where God is not. Christ died spiritually...went where God the Father is not. (And naturally you think you have me where you want me. But the fact is, I freely admit I have a hard time getting my head around the Eternal God in His 3 Persons. But truth does not require one's understanding to be truth.)

    Clarifying certain aspects of God defies human language. But we know enough about Him to gain citizenship in His Kingdom.

    Hell was created specifically for Lucifer (renamed satan). It was created because God was everywhere and satan had to be put in a place where God was not.
    I'm going to save your commentary on Satan for another thread....

    Jesus died. God is eternal. Anyone who dies is not eternal by definition. Doesn't matter if it's in an instant of time or a long time. Death means you are not eternal. Jesus' death was also a sacrifice, something given up.

    If you say to die "spiritually" means he simply WENT where God is not, that means he didn't die, he simply went somewhere. How do you go somewhere where God (the Father?) is not? If God (the Father) wasn't there, how did Jesus get out of there? Wouldn't God (the Father) by definition be there as he is God too?

    As long as you brought it up, explain the nature of Jesus. How does it differ from the Father?

  12. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post

    Jesus died. God is eternal. Anyone who dies is not eternal by definition. Doesn't matter if it's in an instant of time or a long time. Death means you are not eternal. Jesus' death was also a sacrifice, something given up.

    If you say to die "spiritually" means he simply WENT where God is not, that means he didn't die, he simply went somewhere. How do you go somewhere where God (the Father?) is not? If God (the Father) wasn't there, how did Jesus get out of there? Wouldn't God (the Father) by definition be there as he is God too?

    As long as you brought it up, explain the nature of Jesus. How does it differ from the Father?
    Spiritual death is to be outside the presence of the Father. Jesus became sin on our behalf and therefore could not be in the Father's presence.

    Hmmm. You do make a great point. Since death could not hold its Prey, Christ never really died as we understand death. He never sinned so corruption could not touch Him. That is precisely why He could resurrect. Hmm. Great food for thought.

    And, thanks, Sys. You have brought up a great discussion for our next little "confab" at church. I don't know that the bottom line to this discussion can be found in Scripture so we may end up remaining silent since we believe where Scripture is silent, so should we be.

    They are exactly alike in nature but they hold different offices. Christ is Prophet, Priest, and King. I'll have to search to find what the Father's office is. The Holy Spirit is Comforter, Helper, and Teacher. Maybe some of my brothers here know the offices of the Father off the top of their heads.

    Of course, Christ is unique in that He "became flesh and dwelt among us". The Spirit is unique in that He dwells WITHIN us (believers).
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  13. #78
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    "They are exactly alike in nature"--

    Actually, I'd say not. The Holy Ghost has never existed as a person. The Father has never existed as a person. They are ontologically different. You would have to agree with that as you stated that Jesus could be away from the presence of where God the father was located. That also means God isn't omnipresent to you.

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