View Poll Results: would you call him/her a Christian

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47. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes: Christian

    34 72.34%
  • no: not a Christian

    13 27.66%
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  1. #638
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    Tradition holds that there were "3 kings". Scripture does not say how many nor does it say they were kings. What Scripture DOES say is that they brought 3 gifts, specifically gold, frankincense, and myrrh, and that they represented (were sent by) kings to find the Child of Prophecy.

    Scripture referred to them as "wise men" who supposedly could predict the future based on the stars among other things. Maybe this is why they were chosen to find the Child.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

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  2. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    You never read fairy tales to your kids? That's all "Santa Claus" is...a fairy tale lived out for the very young. Younger kids love that stuff and, as long as it is not taken to an extreme, it's okay. JMNSHO.

    And much of what is espoused in religion today, are fairy tales for adults.

    The bible is a historical document of those times were humanity encounterd others who were from outside this earth, or from another civilization than this one. The proof is in the bible itself, the proof is right in front of your eyes, but many rather put a magic spin on it, instead of using our intelligence and scientific knowledge.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  3. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    And much of what is espoused in religion today, are fairy tales for adults.

    The bible is a historical document of those times were humanity encounterd others who were from outside this earth, or from another civilization than this one. The proof is in the bible itself, the proof is right in front of your eyes, but many rather put a magic spin on it, instead of using our intelligence and scientific knowledge.

    Roy
    A-a-a-l-righty, then.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  4. #641
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    angels were the first UFO's but for lack of man's first flight, the word angel was used instead.

  5. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    angels were the first UFO's but for lack of man's first flight, the word angel was used instead.
    That first beer has done you in already?
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  6. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    It's an admission thing. Asking people to give up years of "fun" and doctrines to do what's right is too much of a problem. It's no different than the discussion of a Trinity. If you had to remove all the non-Biblical paganism out of Christmas and Easter there wouldn't be anything left and people just don't want that. What people don't want to acknowledge is that it is not what they want that counts.

    Some people like it better with the blinders on and the ears tickled.
    I don't understand. Everything that we need is in the Bibles, we don't need to add to what is there to be fullfilled.

    As for the trinity of God, the Bibles do point to at least three distinct entities that are equally God. I for one do not limit God to only three entities just because that is all that the Bibles seem to refer to, but the Bibles certainly do indicate that God is a multiple entity and certainly does not fall into Unitarian teachings.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    angels were the first UFO's but for lack of man's first flight, the word angel was used instead.
    I went to an airshow and saw the blue angels fly when I was a kid

  8. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post
    Romans 14:5
    5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
    I'm not much of a fan of one Biblical one liners, but this passage in its context does prove out that those of us who do not recognize Christmas and Easter as well as those who do can both be good Christians.

    My submission to those who celebrate these holidays, in the context of this Romans passage, is; what is it you are celebrating? Is the gift issue not a major distraction from our maintaining our faith? Is the Santa deceit and festive lights not a distraction from the reason we are supposedly celebrating the season?

    Look at the wrapping paper being sold in the stores. How much of it has Christian symbolism or anything on it indicating Jesus Christ?

    Read the entire 14th chapter of Romans and decide if the things you are doing this time of year are sincerely for the sake of reinforcing your faith in God. Or, are we filling our time with nothing but distractions that keep us from God?

    It is apt that the book of Romans is cited here since Romans was written to Pagans about how to adjust their rituals to help them better be with God. It seems that everything about the Christmas and Easter holidays is designed to steer us away from our faith rather then allow us to be more faithful and closer to God.

    No, Christmas and Easter are not very Christian oriented at all. It is a real credit to those who can maintain their relationship with God at these times of year. Some of us simply prefer to deny the distractions.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Interesting read.
    Though it does seem to show that the story of the three kings relies heavily on tradition and even mythology to some extent.

    Yet, I fail to see how this history lesson shows how God or Jesus would dislike a lot of what we do at Christmas. Yes, they would likely be upset with me for not observing the birth of Jesus as they would like, but the kings gave gifts - we give gifts.

    Doesn't the story also say that the kings followed a bright star to find Jesus? Well, many folks put one at the top of thier tree. What's wrong with that?
    Look up the Greek word for "wise men" in the context with an Interlinear. Here's a link: http://www.thedcl.org/bible/diaglott-nt/ed-matthew.pdf Trace the route of the "star". Then try to tell me the wise men had divine backing. I say no on all counts.

    The star goes first to the guy who wants Jesus killed.
    Magicians (not an approved profession) follow the star. (astrology)
    After talking with Herod the star then moves to where the child is.
    The child is now much older than an infant... the manger scene is inaccurate.
    Aftermath: God warns these guys to go back a different way and alot of babies are killed by Herod.

    Definitely not God-approved.

  10. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Well I voted that you are.

    However, aside from being offended at someone who may have voted that you are not, I'm trying to figure out why this matters. As long as you celebrate Jesus how you see fit, what does it matter what others do?

    I admit that I am fully taken in by the paganism. It's fun. I like the Christmas parade on Christmas Eve (in Lynn, MA) because it makes kids smile. Same for gifts... it makes people smile. And I don't give the slightest thought to Jesus the entire time.

    To me, life is too short to get one's underwear in a wad over meaningless things. Let people have thier fun. So what?
    I've got nothing against having fun. I'm all for doing everything that is done this time of year for those who want to participate in it, just don't attach Jesus's name to it. Jesus has nothing to do with the Paganistic aspects of this time of year and the rituals we perform have nothing to do with Jesus. Why not just have a winter party? I don't even care if we call it a Pagan holiday. I have no beef win Pagan ways as long as they don't deny me what I believe in.

    As for those who are claiming I am not a Christian because I don't celebrate non-Biblical and completely Pagan oriented holidays, they are simply very misguided and have bought into the deceit that has become tradition. Tradition is not a thing to revere as if it were God.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I don't understand. Everything that we need is in the Bibles, we don't need to add to what is there to be fullfilled.

    As for the trinity of God, the Bibles do point to at least three distinct entities that are equally God. I for one do not limit God to only three entities just because that is all that the Bibles seem to refer to, but the Bibles certainly do indicate that God is a multiple entity and certainly does not fall into Unitarian teachings.
    I guess I can successfully argue against that so I respectfully disagree with you. However, you would have to settle on some definitions to back up your claim as I find most Trinitarians do not have the same definitions.

    Foremost would be an explanation in the NT of some standard of defining theos and not making switcharoos arbitrarily.

  12. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I've got nothing against having fun. I'm all for doing everything that is done this time of year for those who want to participate in it, just don't attach Jesus's name to it. Jesus has nothing to do with the Paganistic aspects of this time of year and the rituals we perform have nothing to do with Jesus. Why not just have a winter party? I don't even care if we call it a Pagan holiday. I have no beef win Pagan ways as long as they don't deny me what I believe in.

    As for those who are claiming I am not a Christian because I don't celebrate non-Biblical and completely Pagan oriented holidays, they are simply very misguided and have bought into the deceit that has become tradition. Tradition is not a thing to revere as if it were God.
    I agree with you on this. I wouldn't participate in the pagan holiday myself, but at least it's honest and forthcoming. Christmas and Easter are a lie the way they are now.

  13. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Exactly.

    The thing is, (Robo), that while the inaccurate celebration of Jesus' birth on Dec. 25 is based on pagan ritual, eating is also a pagan event. You quit eating, have you? Pics indicate you may have actually perfected the art.

    The point is this. As long as what we do does not interfere with our focus on the greatest gift God ever gave anyone, and as long as none of it is an offense to God or Scripture, it really does not matter.

    If you choose to not celebrate the birth of Christ on Dec. 25, that's cool. Matter of fact, many countries do so on different dates. Ukraine, for instance, does so in January. Why? I haven't a clue.
    The January date is also from Pagan tradition. The twelve days of Christmas fall between the December date and the January date because different factions could not agree on which date was the one to use.

    I also agree that as long as Christians are able to stay focused on God that no distraction is a bad thing. I have never promoted to stop the celebrations of these seasons. I am one of the ones who is being called less of a Christian for not participating in non-Christian functions, not the other way round. It is evil attacking good here. I am the one who is trying to follow Biblical teachings and not be distracted by Pagan ways.

    In all, it is up to us all as to how we behave. Just don't tell me that I am not a believer in my Lord and Saviour because you are doing all the wrong things. Chistmas is no less an offense to God then the celebration of the golden calf at Mt. Sanai was.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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