View Poll Results: would you call him/her a Christian

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes: Christian

    34 72.34%
  • no: not a Christian

    13 27.66%
Page 15 of 61 FirstFirst ... 5891011121314151617181920212225 ... LastLast
Results 183 to 195 of 786
  1. #183
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    949

    I'm I a dim wit or what? -don't answer that- ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    So, I suppose the question is, if God and the bible do, in fact, completely grasp the human condition, then why does a lot of the philospohy of God appear to show the reverse? There is no ideal that all men will agree on and there never will be. So, it seems sort of wierd to send non-conformists to hell when God would seeming already expect that there would be many differeing veiwpoints with regards to such a strict philosophy.
    Again, Christianity is all about conformity (as is also the case with all other religions) and it should not be, as not all men will conform to the same thing. So now we have to consider the worth of any sort of punishment. If God doesn't realize what he has created in me then HE should be punished.

    And as I have pointed out many times before, God's punishment is not developmental in nature. It's eternal.

    Like I said earlier, I can't help looking at my neighbors wife. Whose fault is that? Mine? Eve's? Or the GOD WHO MADE ME THAT WAY?
    I need this in bite size pieces. I feel like I answer the question just after the question changed, that's usually what happens when i never understood the question to begin with. please bear with me.

    So the Human experience is the veriety evident in mankind, including in viewpoints. The notion that there is one true religion cannot be right since not everyone will agree. since not everyone will agree, and the bible apparently condemns those who do not agree, the bible is not right.

    "So, it seems sort of wierd to send non-conformists to hell when God would seeming already expect that there would be many differeing veiwpoints with regards to such a strict philosophy."

    I am in agreement with the portions of TB's post you cited for the most part. and really, God made us 'in his image', so we are very much like him in very many respects, with a little inherited imperfection thrown in. this taint brings out qualities that TB mentioned. so God did make you to like girls, that way his purpose to have a worldwide human family could be realized. But the imperfection you inherited twists the natural desires and turns them against us.
    I posted some on this: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....143002&page=38 Post #482

    In harmony with that post it is not a matter of conformity and non conformity, it is a matter of reality and unreality. That is why god said:
    (Isaiah 48:17-18) 17*This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel: ďI, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit [yourself], the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. 18*O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

    It's not 'do it or I'll throw a tantrum and blow you to bits' it's 'You are only hurting yourself if you do otherwise, but it is your choice'

    Edit:
    I keep on the blind faith thing since a mark of christianity (according to you???) Is the need to blindly accept what is handed to him. since some people and cultures cannot do so, christianity condemns people for who they are, and that is not right.

    I find it helpfull to try and sum up others thoughts to make sur I'm on the same page, please feel free to correct me.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  2. #184
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Woburn, MA
    Posts
    6,662
    one seems to just want to spread as much food around as possible
    [belushi-voice]Try to guess what I am right now[/belushi-voice]

    SPLAT!

    [belushi-voice]A zit!!![/belushi-voice]

    FOOD FIGHT!!!!!

    That boy is a P.I.G. pig!
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  3. #185
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    949

    TB and the Trinity

    I clarified on how I reconcile Isa 45:18 and Colossians 1:17 to 19.

    What do you think?

    The idea Sysint brought up about Proverbs chapter 8 and it referring to Jesus has some merit. Please look into that furthur, you likely just never heard of that before. It paints a really cool picture of jesus working like a junior apprentice with GOd, making it all happen, really enjoying himself in the process.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  4. #186
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Woburn, MA
    Posts
    6,662
    So the Human experience is the veriety evident in mankind, including in viewpoints. The notion that there is one true religion cannot be right since not everyone will agree. since not everyone will agree, and the bible apparently condemns those who do not agree, the bible is not right.
    Almost correct. I would change the end to "either the bible is not right, or "God" is not a god that I will follow."

    In harmony with that post it is not a matter of conformity and non conformity, it is a matter of reality and unreality. That is why god said:
    (Isaiah 48:17-18) 17*This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser, the Holy One of Israel: “I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit [yourself], the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. 18*O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
    Ok, fine. To me, it is a matter of conformity, however. Either conform to the idea that Jesus was divine, or you are excised from eternity. What I am saying is that a God who would hold these philosophies will NEVER be my god. Ever. I am prepared to burn because I don't lay down my values before men, or gods.

    It's not 'do it or I'll throw a tantrum and blow you to bits' it's 'You are only hurting yourself if you do otherwise, but it is your choice'
    There is no choice to make. I and many others CANNOT take things on faith. There is no "choice". This is a perfect illustration of what I was getting at with regards to the human condition. People are uncomfortable with those unlike themselves. Just like Christians are. And they group in to little cliques of like-minded individuals. Just like Christians do. And then they look at others who do not think, act and speak as they do as some form or combination of, wrong/flawed/bad. Just like Christians do. And they can't imagine any other thought process then the one that they have. JUST LIKE CHRISTIANS.

    We all do this to an extent. Such attitudes are, in fact, the basis of such things as racism. I myself can't believe that anyone could clap thier hands over thier ears with regards to a FLAT OUT FACT (evolution). Still, at least I can realize that a different mind set than mine exists, even if I don't understand it. I don't think many of you are quite at that point yet with all due respect.

    EDIT: I just realized that I have made Christians sound "more guilty" than anyone else. Not the case at all. That should read "We all do this. Period."

    You have just perfectly demonstrated this with your "choice" comment. And it is also why I say that most Christians show a stunning lack of understanding when it comes to the human condition. THAT is the human flaw in the bible. So, either the bible was written by men, or God is as flawed we are. Take your pick.

    In my humble opinion, of course.

    I keep on the blind faith thing since a mark of christianity (according to you???) Is the need to blindly accept what is handed to him. since some people and cultures cannot do so, christianity condemns people for who they are, and that is not right.
    While we are on the subject, why do you think God brought me in to this world? Even with free will, God has foreseen that I can't take things on faith. So, why bother to bring me?

    Further, let's say that an asteroid hits the Earth tonight and all life is destroyed. At this time, that would mean that TWO-THIRDS, a strong majority, of Earth's population is sent to hell. You are ok with that? To you, that action is "godly"? To you, God has done his job in that scenario? See, this is the line of thinking that I try to grasp. New insights are always welcome.

    Fine if you do, I really just don't. God cannot allow a situation like that to happen. Not and be my god.

    If God is the "lawgiver" sort, then I'm in a heap o' trouble. Even so, I'll take that over the alternative.
    Last edited by scrogdog; 11-16-2007 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Edited for stupidity
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  5. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    I myself can't believe that anyone could clap thier hands over thier ears with regards to a FLAT OUT FACT (evolution).
    Evolution did not happen bud. Why would it turn itself off all of a sudden? I've needed two more arms, extra fingers, eyes in the back of my head and a light that comes out of my mouth so many times that I can't even count that high but evolution just stopped evolving humans all of the sudden? It never happened in the first place. God created man in His image, that's how we got here.

  6. #188
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Woburn, MA
    Posts
    6,662
    Quote Originally Posted by icchvac View Post
    Evolution did not happen bud. Why would it turn itself off all of a sudden? I've needed two more arms, extra fingers, eyes in the back of my head and a light that comes out of my mouth so many times that I can't even count that high but evolution just stopped evolving humans all of the sudden? It never happened in the first place. God created man in His image, that's how we got here.
    Well from what I have read it hasn't stopped at all.

    In any case, to know it happened is a simple matter of observation. The first step in the scientific method.

    First, we observe that all life comes from other life. I mean, except for how the first simple organisms GOT here ... that we don't know. If you want to say that God placed them here, I'm cool with that.

    Other than that, life does not just appear out of thin air, nor has anything like that ever been observed or suggested.

    So: Premise 1 - All life comes from other life.

    Secondly, we know that when you dig in to the Earth, you find things that are older than what we see here... "on top" as it were. Not only that, but we know that the further down that you dig... the older the things are that you find there.

    So... way, way down there... when we examine the first forms of life... only very simple forms of life appear. We speculate that the first form might have been some sort of bacteria... we don't really know that either. What we do know is that they were simple forms. Non-vertibrates and quite small.

    Later as time progresses, we see more complex forms of life begin to appear both in the plant and animal world. Man and other complex beings appear very far up.

    So... if all life comes from other life... and simple forms of life were here before more complex ones... then the more complex ones MUST have come from the simpler ones!

    Now... we know so little about how his occurred that believers have a field day over the theories of HOW it happaned. Well... we aren't too sure on the "hows" either. We just know that it happened.

    But then, we still aren't too sure about the theory of gravity, but no one denies its existance right? Surely you will not throw yourself off of a bridge to demonstrate that gravity is "only a theory". But that is exactly what such charges against evolution are like.

    Evolution is both fact AND theory... as are all scientific endeavors. But to find a hole or problem with the theory never changes the observation that simple forms were here first and now we are.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  7. #189
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Beautiful, Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love!
    Posts
    1,096

    The real question here is will this thread beat the 9mm or not?

    Christmas, Easter, Lent, Holloween, and the other so called Christian holidays are in fact pagan, as is our calendar dates of BC and AD. The founder of the Roman Catholic Church was Constantine. He was a pagan sun god worshipper, his god was Amen Ra, or Baal as he was know in Hebrew.

    Just a few fun facts Constantine did not stop the persecution of Christians, Diocletian did that in 312 AD, Constantine in fact created a mix of the early followers of Christ called followers of the Way, with his pagan sun god worship.

    You can read the original edict of Constantine making it a crime (punishable by death) to do any of the practices associated with the Sabbath sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday, on any day buy SUNday.

    Passover and all the other festival days of the old covenant were outlawed.
    Jews and any followers of the Way would did not fall in line were put to death.

    To be a follower of the Messiah to recieve the spirit of Yahweh (God) frees one of all penalty under the law, we in fact are no longer judged by the law.
    So keeping holidays created by the traditions of man have nothing to do with one's life with Yahushua (Jesus).

    Now to those on this forum who have not repented (confessed, asked for forgiveness from God, turning from sin), trusting only in Jesus for your eternal salvation, you in fact will be judged under the entire law. How will you be judged? Innocent or Guilty? What will be your fate Heaven or Hell?

    You can laugh it off, there is no God?

    Language English, Spanish, etc, is complex it was crafted over thousands of years. No one would say it just happened by accident.

    Think about a strand of DNA, the language of life imprinted on something so small we did not know it existed for 6000 years, now science discovers this complex language with billions of characters, and you think it just happened? There is no designer? The designer speaks to man through his Word (bible). You must be of the spirit to understand the bible, Jesus said the Gospel would be a stumbling block to the world. Jesus also said, What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and to lose his soul?

    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf201.iv.i.html

  8. #190
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    2,990
    Quote Originally Posted by icchvac View Post
    Evolution did not happen bud. Why would it turn itself off all of a sudden? I've needed two more arms, extra fingers, eyes in the back of my head and a light that comes out of my mouth so many times that I can't even count that high but evolution just stopped evolving humans all of the sudden? It never happened in the first place. God created man in His image, that's how we got here.
    There ya go. I've said for years that if evolution were true, servicemen would have three hands. The fact we don't is the grace of God. Could you imagine the trouble we could get into if we did have three hands?


    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  9. #191
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    2,990
    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    I suppose that is a fair alternate way of saying it. In reality things are far more complex than that, but it works for now. If I were to relate this back to my OP in the other topic, I'd say that this passage descibes what I called "the greatest ill of man" rather than the whole of the human condition itself. So, I suppose the question is, if God and the bible do, in fact, completely grasp the human condition, then why does a lot of the philospohy of God appear to show the reverse? There is no ideal that all men will agree on and there never will be. So, it seems sort of wierd to send non-conformists to hell when God would seeming already expect that there would be many differeing veiwpoints with regards to such a strict philosophy.
    Numba pointed it out pretty well that the condition that lands "non conformists" in hell is their own refusal to act on Gods advice on how to escape that sin condition, or human condition we all find ourselves in. God is supplying, through the bible, the philosophy if you will, that changes our motives from self centered exultation, to others centered exultation, and ultimately God-centered exultation, while exalting in humanity the individualism created in us. It is the condition of sin in us as people that leads us into that human condition you find distastefull. So does God, and He presents to us the remedy for it. The only thing He's asking us to conform to is that remedy. If I was sick with small pox, and the Doc said that if I didn't submit to the treatments, I would be quaranteened from society, and ultimately die, but if I did submit to the treatment, I would live, then if I chose not to conform to the treatments and died, would that be the doc's fault? He is merely defining the condition I'm in and the result of it, if left unremedied. That's all God is doing. It's not a question of conforming to a philosophy where I loose my identity, it is a remedy that exalts my identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    What is and isn't a sin isn't even a universal standard among men. Therefore to say that all men or God have the ability to define an overarching standard for all is not accurate. Again, Christianity is all about conformity (as is also the case with all other religions) and it should not be, as not all men will conform to the same thing. So now we have to consider the worth of any sort of punishment.
    Sin is against God and His character, not man. Sin is our tendancy to exult ourselves above God--just like satan tried to do
    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    If God doesn't realize what he has created in me then HE should be punished.
    He was.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    And as I have pointed out many times before, God's punishment is not developmental in nature. It's eternal.
    correct


    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Well, I suppose that works if you feel the need to pay some sort of price for simply being a human being. I certainly don't. To make me imperfect because of what Eve did is somewhat like blaming me personally for slavery in the United States. It is the sheer ridiculousness of the concept (sorry) which makes me shy away from it.
    It is what Eve did that introduced sin into the world, but were not held accountable for that, only for what we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Like I said earlier, I can't help looking at my neighbors wife. Whose fault is that? Mine? Eve's? Or the GOD WHO MADE ME THAT WAY?
    Again, numba had a good responce, (and it was God who gave us an attraction to pretty women, but sin that causes us to mishandle that attraction) but you recognizing that your neighbors wife is hot, is not sin, what you choose to do with that can be though. I allways marvelled at the number of good looking women that seem to have come out of the woodwork immediately after I got married. I didn't see them before, so what happened? I got married and now satan has another avenue to attack me with, that's all. He wants to distract me from the plan God has to grow me with my wife, by turning my head, and attention away from my wife. It's my chioce, and God gave me many reasons not to give in. I learned a long time ago that believing myself immune from some sins--because I was too young to fall into them--only guaranteed that I would get snared by them once I got older--and still thought I was immune to them. (I forgot to reassess my vulnerability as I got older.) recognizing there are women out there that could make me fall enables me to see the temptation comeing and guard against it better.
    Remember, Jesus was tempted too, but was without sin. It's not sin to be tempted, only to act on that temptation out of self centered exultation of myself, and my opinions---the human condition, the condition God wants to free us from. He desires to free us so much, that He submitted to the standard we could not, and paid the price we deserved.
    Last edited by TB; 11-17-2007 at 05:06 AM.
    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  10. #192
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kenilworth NJ
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by icchvac View Post
    I've needed two more arms, extra fingers, eyes in the back of my head and a light that comes out of my mouth so many times that I can't even count that high...
    LOL!!!!! Har Har Har

    If you know a good dostributor of in the mouth lights let me know, that would be really handy.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  11. #193
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Woburn, MA
    Posts
    6,662
    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post
    There ya go. I've said for years that if evolution were true, servicemen would have three hands. The fact we don't is the grace of God. Could you imagine the trouble we could get into if we did have three hands?

    I hope that smiley means that you understand the ridiculousness of that statement. lol

    Evolution has nothing to do with "improvements". It has to do with adaptation to environments. In fact, evolution can be like a game of rock/paper/scissors. Let's look at a real world example that is knocking on our collective doors.

    In our very near future, man is going to colonize Mars. What a fascinating challenge, eh? No longer will we be simply camping in space. No longer will mission control be the one with all of the answers. They will need to be self-sufficient. And coming back isn't going to be easy. So, sooner or later, we won't come back. We'll live there.

    Of course, this situation is the basis for a lot of speculations with regards to the future of man. One would think that at some point down the line, they will have thier own government and such. Maybe they become so politically distant that we wouldn't even like each other anymore, who knows?

    However, one thing that will surely happen is adaptation to the new enviroment. Meaning, among other things, far less muscle mass than is required for Earth-bound humans. Is that an improvement? Depends on who you talk to. I hardly think that an Earth-bound athelete would view it as such.

    I'll get to your other post later. I've had my intellectual breakfast, now it's time for my physical one.
    Last edited by scrogdog; 11-17-2007 at 08:09 AM. Reason: Typos and clarity
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  12. #194
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post

    It is what Eve did that introduced sin into the world, but were not held accountable for that, only for what we do.
    Well, I got my net set up at home so just one post before I go make a haul as part of the moving process.

    I have to take a very minor but important issue with you here, TB. It was Adam who committed the first sin. Here is why I say that.

    It is clear in Scripture that Adam and Eve had a very intimate and loving relationship with God. And I am quite sure that the Creator told them all they needed to know to maintain that relationship. So I am just as sure that He shared with them the principle found in James 4:17, "He who knows to do good but does not do it, to him it is counted as sin." And Scripture is replete in making it clear that the man is responsible for the spiritual well-being of his household.

    That being said, if you read the account in Genesis about satan's tempting Eve, you will see that Adam was right there listening in. Adam did nothing to stop the beguilement of Eve. He "seen his duty" but did not do it. THAT sin preceded Eve's sin. Would you not agree?
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  13. #195
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Then it is obvious that YOU don't know what a Christian is or is not. I will, however, attempt to explain it to you....

    One thing and one thing only makes one a Christian...putting one's faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross is what makes one a Christian.
    Numbawunfela - Do you put faith in the finished work of Jesus? (yes/no) --- Thanks.

Page 15 of 61 FirstFirst ... 5891011121314151617181920212225 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event