View Poll Results: would you call him/her a Christian

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  • yes: Christian

    34 72.34%
  • no: not a Christian

    13 27.66%
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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post
    ..... Now since the NWT has been shown to be unreliable as a source of truth elseware, then it would be unwise to rely on it completely as a credible source of truth now.
    Greek scholars Jason BeDuhn, Thomas Winter, Rijkel Tate, Edgar Goodspeed have committed their favorable opinions of the accuracy of the NWT to writing.

    Bible translators Steve Byington and Bruce Metzger have as well.

    Hebrew scholar Benjamin Kedar has testified to the accuracy and honesty of the translation.

    A good many other writers of varying levels have expressed their educated opinions that the NWT is an accurate translation from the original languages.

    Actual quotes are available if you would like.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    The refrigerator perry was my favorite..

    Jesus and his disciples all rode in that Honda

    DId you ever wonder who the smallest couple in the bible was?

    Adam and Eve, because they lived in a pair of dice... har har!

    (Paradise get it?)
    Who was the most sinful person in the Bible?



    Moses; he broke all ten commandments at one time.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cureÖ
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfdog View Post
    Greek scholars Jason BeDuhn, Thomas Winter, Rijkel Tate, Edgar Goodspeed have committed their favorable opinions of the accuracy of the NWT to writing.

    Bible translators Steve Byington and Bruce Metzger have as well.

    Hebrew scholar Benjamin Kedar has testified to the accuracy and honesty of the translation.

    A good many other writers of varying levels have expressed their educated opinions that the NWT is an accurate translation from the original languages.

    Actual quotes are available if you would like.
    I try to avoid appealing to the opinions of men to support my theological beliefs. Instead, I go to scripture for that support. When I believe something that scripture contradicts, my opinion must be changed, if that scripture is supported by the rest of scripture. It is really quite irrelevant who endorses a Bible translation, they only look less credible when a simple examination of it reveals the self-contradictions, trademark of liars. The endorsement of scholars only means they hold the opinion that it is a honest translation, but honest from what perspective? How many scholars were approached to endorse the NWT that refused to? The opinion of some, does not guarantee reliability.

    Why would I want to read a faulty translation, (even if it were endorsed by many), and willingly allow myself to come to a false conclusion on the nature of God and Jesus, that is not supported by the rest of scripture. Wouldn't that be a bit like being stupid on purpose?
    Last edited by TB; 11-15-2007 at 04:07 AM.
    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Who was the most sinful person in the Bible?



    Moses; he broke all ten commandments at one time.
    Who were the four people in the Bible who didn't have parents?













    Adam, Eve, Melchizedeck, and...























    Joshua, son of Nun
    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  5. #135
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    This holiday season, while on those long road trips, made even tougher by the seemingly constant remarks from the passengers side, remember, wives are simply carrying on a tradition since that first Christmas road trip to Bethlehem, when Mary road Joseph's ass all the way there.
    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Jesus WAS created, for when he had not yet become Jesus he was simply God. If Jesus had not come then no one would know of him; there would only be God. So Jesus was very much a creation of God. Even if you believe that Jesus was also God Himself.
    Y'know, that's a good point Scrog, the body of Jesus did begin in Mary's womb, and according to Mtt 1:18,20, Was fathered by the Holy Ghost--not Jehovah-- that would also qualify him as Gods first-born, but the Jesus born into this world then wasn't arround at creation, so we're back to square 1.

    ...'cept the passage doesn't say Jesus created after He was born into an earthly body, it simply says he created after it says he was first born...
    TB
    Everyone knows something I don't.

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by TB View Post
    I try to avoid appealing to the opinions of men to support my theological beliefs....
    Why would I want to read a faulty translation, (even if it were endorsed by many), and willingly allow myself to come to a false conclusion on the nature of God and Jesus, that is not supported by the rest of scripture. Wouldn't that be a bit like being stupid on purpose?
    More fascinating logic. I see people attack the NWT not having "educated" support and now you are stating the opposite.

    You have a faulty translation endorsed by many that removes God's name and (somewhat) allows you to come to a false conclusion of God and Jesus.

    Put somebody in front of a Bible that hasn't seen it our Christianity and I highly doubt they would come up with the Trinity. Especially since neither the Word Trinity is in the Bible or it's definition.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbawunfela View Post
    Poor Bootlen. This scripture is fulfilled on you: (1 Timothy 1:5-7) Really the objective of this mandate is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things certain ones have been turned aside into idle talk, 7 wanting to be teachers of law, but not perceiving either the things they are saying or the things about which they are making strong assertions.

    As we continue to go deeper into the topic of the trinity, or the proper translation of the bible, or any other topic, you will see the following occur:

    (Malachi 3:18) And YOU people will again certainly see [the distinction] between a righteous one and a wicked one, between one serving God and one who has not served him.
    AS your posts get more extreme, your credibility will fall.

    You should ask yourself: (Genesis 4:6-7) At this Jehovah said to Cain: ďWhy are you hot with anger and why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you turn to doing good, will there not be an exaltation? But if you do not turn to doing good, there is sin crouching at the entrance, and for you is its craving; and will you, for your part, get the mastery over it?
    Although you may not agree, I know you can get mastery, if you choose not to, there will be no exultation, and the effect of the Holy Spirit, with its peace, reasonableness, love, etc. will be seen to be lacking before all.....
    I have often wondered if Herod or his brother's wife considered John the Baptist's words as those of love.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_fridge View Post
    Just a personal observation from a fellow Christian...

    It appears that we have Christian arguing with Christian over meanings of words and various translations. While sincere study and discussion of God's word is healthy, it almost seems like some of you guys are fighting over these things instead of searching for their meanings. Sometimes non-believers use arguments like this as fodder to support their anti-God positions so I think we should be careful to remember that we're on the same team.

    I now return you to an otherwise excellent discussion.
    #1 is not a Christian. He's a JW.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Jesus WAS created, for when he had not yet become Jesus he was simply God. If Jesus had not come then no one would know of him; there would only be God. So Jesus was very much a creation of God. Even if you believe that Jesus was also God Himself.
    Actually, the One we CALL Jesus was not created. But the name Jesus WAS created.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Jesus WAS created, for when he had not yet become Jesus he was simply God. If Jesus had not come then no one would know of him; there would only be God. So Jesus was very much a creation of God. Even if you believe that Jesus was also God Himself.
    The Scripture says he is the "firstborn of creation."

    1 Corinthians 8:6 is in agreement with this by stating: 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. NIV

    So, if all things are from the ONE God the father, and all those things are through Jesus, the scripture in Colossians has nothing to do with Jesus on earth.

    Proverbs 8:22 The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; 23 I was appointed from eternity,from the beginning, before the world began.....30 Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him --NIV

    1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder--KVJ

  12. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfdog View Post
    Greek scholars Jason BeDuhn, Thomas Winter, Rijkel Tate, Edgar Goodspeed have committed their favorable opinions of the accuracy of the NWT to writing....
    I take it BeDuhn is now "approved" as a quote/mention? I remember bringing his book up before to you and you wouldn't look into it. Must be in a publication now. (everybody gets a dig-- don't take it too personal)

    EDIT-- "Rijkel Tate" I think yo have a typo here.
    Last edited by sysint; 11-15-2007 at 08:00 AM.

  13. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    #1 is not a Christian. He's a JW.
    I hardly think you are in a position to call somebody not a Christian. When did you get that authority of a judgment position?

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