View Poll Results: would you call him/her a Christian
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11-14-2007, 10:50 AM #118
A conclusion is possible freinds...
At this point it may be good to asses the progress so far. Among other things, it seems that John 1:1 has come up a lot.
Is the Word 'God', or 'a god'? the grammatical points from Sysint seem to indicate that there is at least the possibility that 'a god' is a POSSIBLE translation. It also allows for the fact that a concientious translator would have reason not to add a letter 'a' since it was not present in the original text, but this doesn't mean it necessarily wasn't meant to be there in english translation, it just may be an oversight to not include it.
RESULTS: Inconclusive... You can't settle the identity of God on one verse. If it is so important, then there should be other verses that apply and can help us get to the bottom of things.
SO we can continue to produce witnesses.Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
11-14-2007, 11:31 AM #119
Just a personal observation from a fellow Christian...
It appears that we have Christian arguing with Christian over meanings of words and various translations. While sincere study and discussion of God's word is healthy, it almost seems like some of you guys are fighting over these things instead of searching for their meanings. Sometimes non-believers use arguments like this as fodder to support their anti-God positions so I think we should be careful to remember that we're on the same team.
I now return you to an otherwise excellent discussion.
11-14-2007, 05:34 PM #120
THat was the motive behind the 'be nice' post I put up on the last page. If the truth has nothing to do with our personal opinion, but rather on what God tells us, there is no reason to dodge, get offended, or be nasty. I don't know if you went far enough back to se TB's post where he said:
Originally Posted by TB
The Christian perspective should be that scripture is right, and seek to line up their own opinion with it. With that perspective, there is no offense in being "wrong", merely gratitude at the opportunity to become "right", and therefore, no desire to avoid being accused of being wrong.
BTW did you play for the Bears in the late 80's???Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
11-14-2007, 05:39 PM #121
Nope, never played fer the bears. Maybe bad news bears.
11-14-2007, 05:53 PM #122
To continue to sum up.....
So Is it that Jesus was created, and that is what is meant by 'firstborn of creation'? How can it be that jesus was created if Jesus created all things in the next verse? (My translation says he created all OTHER things btw) Is it really saying that firstborn as in of creation (thus created) or of those resurrected, or both? Is 'by means of him' (vs16) Meant to show us God used him as an assistant perhaps to do all this? THat would seem to allow for the bible to say in one place 'jesus was created' and in another 'jesus created all things'. God made Jesus first and then WOrked with Jesus, allowing Jesus to take Part in the Creative Process. It would explain why We read this:
(Genesis 1:26) And God went on to say: ďLet us make man..." The 'us' Referring to Jesus, who took Direction from god and then did the job.
SEEMS Reasonable at least. What do you think TB?Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
11-14-2007, 05:58 PM #123
The refrigerator perry was my favorite..
Jesus and his disciples all rode in that Honda
DId you ever wonder who the smallest couple in the bible was?
Adam and Eve, because they lived in a pair of dice... har har!
(Paradise get it?)Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
11-14-2007, 06:03 PM #124
11-14-2007, 06:08 PM #125
WOW a willing audiance for my corny bible jokes!!
Adam and eve were small, but peter james and john all fell asleep on a watch...
The first car in the bible?
Gen 3:24 God drove adam and eve out of the garden of eden in his fury (some translations)Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.
11-14-2007, 06:25 PM #126
11-14-2007, 06:25 PM #127
11-14-2007, 08:10 PM #128Besides, the time may come when you post and all you get is the reply 'It's just another boot-bomb, ignore it fellas, he does this from time to time.'
Even when I want him too.
Now, I can be a downright pain in the ass, a "known ass" as the saying goes here on the forums. I respect Bootlen a lot. He has never ever declared me hopeless when I have repeatedly assured him that I am.
Bootlen does seem a tad grouchy right now, but he also recently suffered a very close and important loss. I have never suffered a similar loss as yet so I can only imagine what it's like and what he is going through right now. And what I am imagining is not very good.
That said, you should probably also know that Boot has openly admitted that he has a closed mind. He can afford to be that way, you see, because he's right.
My anger over a certain recent event has now subsided, and I have returned for many reasons... among them to speak with you Numba. You seem a very refreshing voice "on the other side" as it were. But don't cast Bootlen down as the only stubborn believer on this board.
Anyway, I was struck by your earlier comment about the Bible being incapable of contradicting itself. Maybe... maybe not. In my mind the bible is rife with illogic and conundrum. Whether or not that means that the bible conflicts with itself will be widely open to interpretation.
I am in my busy season at work and may not post as much as normal until February or so. I'll try to write detailed replies when I can which may not be always.
Sometimes non-believers use arguments like this as fodder to support their anti-God positions so I think we should be careful to remember that we're on the same team.
As Betrum Russell once said "Man would rather die than think. In fact, he does so.""Social networking" is an oxymoron.
11-14-2007, 08:18 PM #129Professional Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2001
- Eastern Washington
How about Isa 45 :18. If you consider this passage in Col. with that one in Isa. what do you conclude?TB
Everyone knows something I don't.
2 Chronicles 7:14
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
11-14-2007, 08:24 PM #130if Jesus was created we are in trouble. Only an eternal being can pay an eternal debt of sin against an eternal God, in a finite time. If Jesus was created, then he had a beginning, and therefore is not eternal. His death would not pay the debt caused by our sin against an eternal being."Social networking" is an oxymoron.