Has anyone tried to integrate into the old Siemens Insight
with an NAE? There are alot of panels and I am talking to
some people who say Siemens has a device that will take
Siemens to Ethernet. I don't know if an upgrade from Insight
to Apogee is necessary but if this is true, can I take ethernet
to Bacnet and will the NAE let me define another bacnet device?
Any other suggestions?
I have integrated with a siemens before. Their controllers were very old, they were able to pull their comm trunk off the old main board and land it on a newer apogee looking bacnet device. Was just couple VAV links.
So most likely siemens will need a new panel to go bacnet with you.
Apogee is needed
The device you are referring to is an Apogee Ethernet Module (AEM). It must be connected to an Apogee panel to use.There can be non Apogee (ie. System 600) panels on the communications bus connected to the Apogee panel.
Neither an AEM nor an Ethernet panel will do what you want.
To be honest, I am not aware of a device that will do what you ask. The only integrations that I've done are the ones that bring other systems into the Siemens side, not the other way around.
Sorry, can't help more.
Originally Posted by Ex-Man
There is a speciality group within JCI called systems integration services (SIS). They do this type of integration on a regular basis. What you are trying to do is really fairly simple, but you must engage SIS through the branch organization. Is this path available to you?
SIS does allot of integrations, and are very slow. I did several projects using SIS, and they all scan from the RS232\485 port which at best is 9600. If you have tons of points, the scan rate could be minutes.
And the cost is huge. We did one for our Honeywell and the price tag was over 10K. With the NAE upgrades -> to match our ADS we could have install hardware twice.
But if you can get the Siemens to a BACnet IP format, then you could be going in the correct direction.
Integrator makes a good point. If you are scanning a BLN at 9600 with a large point total then speed would be an issue. For the most part I do not see too many BLNs at 9600 anymore, I would expect 19,200 at least (unless your talking about the old SCUs). There is also an integration at the FLN level which is a pretty fast connection. If you can get Siemens to spit out BACnet/IP then yes this is definately the way to go. The last time I checked Siemens was charging about $8,500 for their BACnet/IP option, so with labor your still looking at $10K. I have done the BACnet/IP method on a system with about 9000 objects and it perfromed very well.
I might be wrong, being here in Iowa (not the largest DDC market in the world) and having only done integrations that bring other protocols into the Siemens system.
But, here's what I'm seeing in this thread. DDC_jci is asking what is required to export Siemens BAS data into an open protocol.
All of the replies referring to various pieces of Siemens equipment won't work for this purpose. Yes, we have "drivers" (i.e., gateways) that will allow the Siemens BAS to communicate with bacnet but as far as I know, not the other way around.
I do not know of any equipment that Siemens makes that will allow it's US BAS system to be accessed via any open protocol.
(I'll verify this tomorrow and if I'm wrong, I'll come back here and eat crow.)
Of course, anyone else with personal experience to the contrary, please correct me!
Smallstuff, I'm assuming you're talking about using the Siemens Apogee system to access 9000 bacnet\IP devices, correct?
Dingman, yes you are correct. Siemens loaded their BACnet software on an Apogee WS and exported the 9000 BACnet objects (BACnet/IP). We auto-discovered the devices and objects and initialy had a few com errors, but once we adjusted a couple of settings everything became solid and has been that way ever since. I am not aware of any way to talk directly to a panel (SCU, MBC, MEC) using an open protocol.