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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    the Great Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    607

    Why some installers shouldn't do start ups.

    Or maybe even installs,

    Ran a service call last spring for gas smell. Found a makeup air system duct heater with a rusted out burner assy and cracked heat exchanger. ..............So nobody ever installed the discharge air sensor for the modulating gas valve, still taped to the manifold, looks like some overheating going on.






    Facility has two systems the same heres the other one.



    Notice the bulb taped to the pipe.



    Cleaned up the wiring a little bit too.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    820
    i have never seen that kind of a set up with a swamp cooler and heater combination, is that normal or is it another mickey mouse job.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    the Great Pacific Northwest
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    607
    Fairly common around here for kitchen makeup air. Not mickey mouse (unless it's not installed right like this job).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    IN THE CRAWL SPACE
    Posts
    1,536
    Quote Originally Posted by refer guy View Post
    i have never seen that kind of a set up with a swamp cooler and heater combination, is that normal or is it another mickey mouse job.
    I see them on dry cleaners.They use the duct heater to heat up the
    make up air.Gotta to remember to drain the pan and shut off the water supply in the winter.
    Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,194
    100% humidity off the SC blowing on the heat exchanger? Do they last more than a year or 2?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
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    1,209
    Quote Originally Posted by hvac-tech-lane View Post
    Fairly common around here for kitchen makeup air. Not mickey mouse (unless it's not installed right like this job).
    I see a ton of those down here in Eugene also. It's kind of rare to see the swamper actually hooked up with water.
    Proud supporter of Springfield Millers and Oregon Ducks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    the Great Pacific Northwest
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    607
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    100% humidity off the SC blowing on the heat exchanger? Do they last more than a year or 2?
    It doesn't seem to be a problem if they are set up properly. They don't condense on the HE since its above the dewpoint.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    the Great Pacific Northwest
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    607
    Quote Originally Posted by millerman View Post
    I see a ton of those down here in Eugene also. It's kind of rare to see the swamper actually hooked up with water.

    These had the water hooked up. Lots of them don't have water connected, when the swamp cooler feeds a captive air type hood system.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    4,917
    Quote Originally Posted by millerman View Post
    I see a ton of those down here in Eugene also. It's kind of rare to see the swamper actually hooked up with water.
    Then whats the use of the swamper in the first place?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Loveland, CO
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    Then whats the use of the swamper in the first place?
    Its a relatively inexpensive outdoor rated fan assembly open on three or four sides. I often see synthetic evap cooler pad materials used as a prefilter. Seems to work, they are always dirty but easy to clean and reuse.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    1,209
    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    Then whats the use of the swamper in the first place?
    Make up air.
    Proud supporter of Springfield Millers and Oregon Ducks.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    636
    That type of heat exchanger cracks fast. We saw a lot of those in Phoenix. A local manufacturer made those exact kinds.

    (a) Let's weld those clamshells to a horizontal piece of sheet metal with 10,000 degree F arc welders. That makes the metal nice and brittle.
    (b) Any condition at all that makes the unit short cycle will cause a lot of condensation.
    (c) Condensation goes... DOWN hill... and clings to the 90 degree weld point, sitting there. Cooling the metal.
    (d) wet metal cools faster than dry metal
    (e) brittle metal which is cooled faster than nearby (more) elastic metal cracks

    Bam. Done.

    The most common things I found that would cause the short cycling were (a) bad anticipators on honeywell round tstats, (b) restrictive supply ductwork which caused the heat to roll back into the heat exchanger and continually cycle the unit on its high limit safety and (c) a supply and return duct placed right next to each other.

    You'd think those 3 things would be relatively uncommon.

    I replaced 50 of those heat exchangers a year in the first 3 years I was in the field. I could put my hands through some of the cracks.

    You will notice no modern company makes these kinds of heat exchangers. And NO WELDS. (Causing brittle metal).

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