Regular Guest
Hi Everyone,
You are preparing to upgrade our site. The site is fully Johnson's Control system.
Our current configuration is:
NCM-350 --- N2 --- UNTs (15) ---- DX9100s (4)
NCM-350 == ARCNET === PC Running Graphics Ver.9
We are looking in 2 possibles upgrades:
Option A:
N30 --- N2 --- UNTs (15) ---- DX9100s (4)
N30 == Ethernet === PC Running M3 and M-Graphic thru OPC
Option B:
FX40 --- N2 --- UNTs (15) ---- DX9100s (4)
FX40 == Ethernet === PC Workbench and web browser
We currently have lots of experience with N30s (M3 and M-Graphics) and few sites experience with the FX40s.
This site is the only one with NCM and all graphics need to be reviewed. Also we don't want to reprogram our UNTs and DXs, they are part of the business production.
If you have any ideas, comments or recommendations regarding our upgrade it will be appreciated.
Regards
Member
I'm kinda new here, but we change out them NMCs to the NAE line. The fellas told me that the N30 was the earlier version of the NAE, so if you like the N30 you should like the NAE. They are a very high end device, so you can only get one from a branch office of Johnson Controls. I'm told it's because other comtractors try to program them and screw them up and it gives us a black eye.
Regular Guest
Hello Hvac-Al
I believe Bluethunder is right about the NAE being the upgrade to the N30. The NAE graphics are very good, and when you get a ADS server the whole package is really unbelievable. Only Johnson Control Branches can install and service the NAE. Truly a remarkable product. FX40 controllers from what I have seen have some pretty good graphics, but I have been told there are developmental issues and quality control problems with getting field support from the manufacturer.
Professional Member
FX40...FX40...FX40....FX40....FX40
Get it?
Professional Member
Originally Posted by the real metasys man
Oh boy.....
Yo Freddy,
HalreyAl,
get over here!
IlovemyjobIlovemyjobIlovemyjob....say it with me now!
Professional Member
The NAE was originally called the N50, but it turned out to be VERY different from the N30.
(there are still some "N50" files floating around in an NAE database though)
Totally different software, programing, different look, different smell.
Not the same species at all, IMO.
IlovemyjobIlovemyjobIlovemyjob....say it with me now!
Member
wrench
If there is N50 data is in your NAE, maybe that means your database is corrupted? I can ask some of my peers how you can get that resolved. I think there is a undll command that is used, but maybe that won't apply for this foreign data in a NAE issue.
Professional Member
Nope.
It's suposed to be there.
It is a reminant of the original design I believe.
unddl if for decompling a PMI database.
Hang in there grasshopper, you're surrounded by brainwashed blue bloods right here.
And FWIW, you may want to edit out the sewing and fashion bits from your profile.
You wouldn't want anyone to think you are like Freddy!
IlovemyjobIlovemyjobIlovemyjob....say it with me now!
Member
FX40, hands down.
N30s are a generation old now, just like the NCMs. With no further development/enhancement efforts to the N30/M3 line, it's as good as it's ever going to be, 1990s style.
By going to the FX40, you're current. The full feature list advantage of the FX40 is HUGE over the N30.
I don't know why you'd be concerned about reprogramming field controllers with either device, it wouldn't be required. If you have some real serious GPL/JCBasic running in the NCM, the N30 would fall short on capability to reproduce.
Look to the future with the FX40, leave the past be the past.
Member
"real mm: NAE graphics are very good"
They are considered so until your survey reaches the 3rd graders, then it falls off rapidly.
bluethunder: what's blue thunder? I'm betting it's koolaid soaked crack.
They are NCMs, not NMCs and as X said, unddl is for a completely different system, that's just plain scary. You have a long way to go, but get off the crack!
X
Professional Member
Wow, won't the boss throw a fit when he finds out we've become a JCI branch...after all, we've only purchased, installed and serviced about a dozen of these stupid things in the last few months, and sent 4 of our people to JCI's NAE training within the last couple months.
Fortunately, with the NAE training under my belt, the boss still lets me buy FX-40's and make the job look good for the customer.
Hmmm, perhaps the boys in blue aren't fully clued in to just where these things are sold. Official sales channels abound, people...
Regular Guest
Thanks all for your input.......
The current UNTs and DXs have some cross JCBasic links but those routines need to be completly revised. Most of them have not be reviewed ot modified since the first installation of the NCM.
We want the current UNTs and DXs more standalone as possible (if the N2 break the units will be able to handle the job) right now they are too tight to the NCM.
We want to use the Supervisor (NCM, N30, FX40, etc) at the top layer as much of possible.
To resume your informations......
NCM, N50, M5, NAE are stricly available for Johnson's Control and ABCS
M30, M3, FX40 are available to all Johnson's Control resellers (including JCI and ABCS)
It seams the winner is FX40 .... but we are still concern about the fact JCI always refer to Tridium for support and devellopment.
Regards
Banned
Sounds like your site is perfect for a FX. It is by far the right choice. NAE graphics are a joke. Not only do they look like Big Bird and the Cookie Monster designed them while hitting the pipe. They are resource hogs, and you are married to big blue and microsoft to do anything with them. NAE's are a waste of plastic that could have been used for making something important, you know like those cake strainers you see in urinals or something.
X- WTF are you talking about? I am more into needlepoint and scrapbooking.
Regular Guest
Go with the FX40.........Less expensive........A HELL OF A LOT BETTER
FX40 graphics are FANTASTIC
The entire system is user friendly and easy to learn.
Regular Guest
I agree with all the FX40 votes and reasonings.
That's because 99% of it is Tridium. You wouldn't want it any other way.It seams the winner is FX40 .... but we are still concern about the fact JCI always refer to Tridium for support and devellopment.
Member
halrey & frebby
Do you have any experience with NAEs? Since it sounds like you are not a branch tech, it kind of proves the black eye theory. I am very excited with the technology that we are providing, and from what I am told, so are all the other control companies that are copying the NAEs. I DO NOT USE CRACK.
Regular Guest
I have engineered, installed, programmed both the NAE and the FX40.
By far, the FX40 is the best.
If you are a JCI Employee, you have NO experience with the FX40. Therefore, you cannot give an educated comparison.
Regular Guest
A properly engineered/programmed job, will have all of the ASC's (UNT,DX9100) programmed so they can work in the stand-alone mode in case of loss of N2. Global programming should be minimal.
Professional Member
Mr. Thunder.
A little advice, FWIW.
When entering a pool for the first time, wade around a bit at first to test the waters.
Don't just jump right in and start pissing all over the place, as you will just be pissing on your self.
Since you asked about experience, you may want to check out this thread to get a feel for the neighborhood.
http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=148289
You work for JCI!
Tell me you don't believe everything you are told!
I know you are new there, but it shouldn't take you but about a day to figure that one out!
I wish you well grasshopper.
IlovemyjobIlovemyjobIlovemyjob....say it with me now!
Banned
Unfortunately I have seen more than enough NAE's to know that they are extreme pieces of crap. As far as copying them......thats just funny and not even worth the effort to respond. The only black eye theory around here is the one in the middle of your CRACK after the IndyBlues of the world get done with ya.
Frebby-D
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