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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    11

    JCI: NCM or N30 or FX40

    Hi Everyone,

    You are preparing to upgrade our site. The site is fully Johnson's Control system.

    Our current configuration is:
    NCM-350 --- N2 --- UNTs (15) ---- DX9100s (4)
    NCM-350 == ARCNET === PC Running Graphics Ver.9

    We are looking in 2 possibles upgrades:
    Option A:
    N30 --- N2 --- UNTs (15) ---- DX9100s (4)
    N30 == Ethernet === PC Running M3 and M-Graphic thru OPC
    Option B:
    FX40 --- N2 --- UNTs (15) ---- DX9100s (4)
    FX40 == Ethernet === PC Workbench and web browser

    We currently have lots of experience with N30s (M3 and M-Graphics) and few sites experience with the FX40s.

    This site is the only one with NCM and all graphics need to be reviewed. Also we don't want to reprogram our UNTs and DXs, they are part of the business production.

    If you have any ideas, comments or recommendations regarding our upgrade it will be appreciated.

    Regards

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    In the basement.
    Posts
    74
    I'm kinda new here, but we change out them NMCs to the NAE line. The fellas told me that the N30 was the earlier version of the NAE, so if you like the N30 you should like the NAE. They are a very high end device, so you can only get one from a branch office of Johnson Controls. I'm told it's because other comtractors try to program them and screw them up and it gives us a black eye.

  3. #3
    Hello Hvac-Al

    I believe Bluethunder is right about the NAE being the upgrade to the N30. The NAE graphics are very good, and when you get a ADS server the whole package is really unbelievable. Only Johnson Control Branches can install and service the NAE. Truly a remarkable product. FX40 controllers from what I have seen have some pretty good graphics, but I have been told there are developmental issues and quality control problems with getting field support from the manufacturer.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    735
    FX40...FX40...FX40....FX40....FX40


    Get it?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    919
    Quote Originally Posted by the real metasys man View Post
    Hello Hvac-Al

    The NAE graphics are very good,

    Oh boy.....




    Yo Freddy,


    HalreyAl,



    get over here!

    IlovemyjobIlovemyjobIlovemyjob....say it with me now!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    919
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueThunder View Post
    The fellas told me that the N30 was the earlier version of the NAE, so if you like the N30 you should like the NAE.
    The NAE was originally called the N50, but it turned out to be VERY different from the N30.
    (there are still some "N50" files floating around in an NAE database though)
    Totally different software, programing, different look, different smell.
    Not the same species at all, IMO.
    IlovemyjobIlovemyjobIlovemyjob....say it with me now!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    In the basement.
    Posts
    74
    wrench

    If there is N50 data is in your NAE, maybe that means your database is corrupted? I can ask some of my peers how you can get that resolved. I think there is a undll command that is used, but maybe that won't apply for this foreign data in a NAE issue.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    919
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueThunder View Post
    wrench

    If there is N50 data is in your NAE, maybe that means your database is corrupted? I can ask some of my peers how you can get that resolved. I think there is a undll command that is used, but maybe that won't apply for this foreign data in a NAE issue.
    Nope.
    It's suposed to be there.
    It is a reminant of the original design I believe.

    unddl if for decompling a PMI database.

    Hang in there grasshopper, you're surrounded by brainwashed blue bloods right here.

    And FWIW, you may want to edit out the sewing and fashion bits from your profile.
    You wouldn't want anyone to think you are like Freddy!
    IlovemyjobIlovemyjobIlovemyjob....say it with me now!

  9. #9
    FX40, hands down.

    N30s are a generation old now, just like the NCMs. With no further development/enhancement efforts to the N30/M3 line, it's as good as it's ever going to be, 1990s style.

    By going to the FX40, you're current. The full feature list advantage of the FX40 is HUGE over the N30.

    I don't know why you'd be concerned about reprogramming field controllers with either device, it wouldn't be required. If you have some real serious GPL/JCBasic running in the NCM, the N30 would fall short on capability to reproduce.

    Look to the future with the FX40, leave the past be the past.

  10. #10
    "real mm: NAE graphics are very good"
    They are considered so until your survey reaches the 3rd graders, then it falls off rapidly.

    bluethunder: what's blue thunder? I'm betting it's koolaid soaked crack.
    They are NCMs, not NMCs and as X said, unddl is for a completely different system, that's just plain scary. You have a long way to go, but get off the crack!

    X

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by the real metasys man View Post
    Only Johnson Control Branches can install and service the NAE.
    Wow, won't the boss throw a fit when he finds out we've become a JCI branch...after all, we've only purchased, installed and serviced about a dozen of these stupid things in the last few months, and sent 4 of our people to JCI's NAE training within the last couple months.

    Fortunately, with the NAE training under my belt, the boss still lets me buy FX-40's and make the job look good for the customer.


    Hmmm, perhaps the boys in blue aren't fully clued in to just where these things are sold. Official sales channels abound, people...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    11
    Thanks all for your input.......

    The current UNTs and DXs have some cross JCBasic links but those routines need to be completly revised. Most of them have not be reviewed ot modified since the first installation of the NCM.

    We want the current UNTs and DXs more standalone as possible (if the N2 break the units will be able to handle the job) right now they are too tight to the NCM.

    We want to use the Supervisor (NCM, N30, FX40, etc) at the top layer as much of possible.

    To resume your informations......

    NCM, N50, M5, NAE are stricly available for Johnson's Control and ABCS
    M30, M3, FX40 are available to all Johnson's Control resellers (including JCI and ABCS)

    It seams the winner is FX40 .... but we are still concern about the fact JCI always refer to Tridium for support and devellopment.

    Regards

  13. #13
    Sounds like your site is perfect for a FX. It is by far the right choice. NAE graphics are a joke. Not only do they look like Big Bird and the Cookie Monster designed them while hitting the pipe. They are resource hogs, and you are married to big blue and microsoft to do anything with them. NAE's are a waste of plastic that could have been used for making something important, you know like those cake strainers you see in urinals or something.

    X- WTF are you talking about? I am more into needlepoint and scrapbooking.

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