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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    Not everybody. What made you think that everyone has a gun? Paranoia?
    Read the post, Einstein. "just about everbody"...as in just about. Not everbody as a whole. Next time cut and paste my comments more carefully. Get some lessons from geer.
    You are the one with the pipe dream. I just stated the reality.
    "Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better"
    -Pat Riley

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillbilly View Post
    And we'll go back to Cro-Magnon to compare you.
    I was thinking more along the lines of "amoeba".
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  3. #55
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    Modern liberalism is the mental disorder, not necessarily classical liberalism. The liberals who preceded the World Wars were for open trade, and were not protectionist in their approach to finance. Currently liberals seem to favor the unearned redistribution of wealth.
    The neo-con protects the national interest as they perceive it to be, as it relates to the use of globalism, if need be, to make the money.
    Where does open trade fit into these two groups today? Which is more protectionist?
    I would say that neither the neo-con nor the modern liberal would decisively take the prize for being protectionist.
    Now before I totally hijack, let's resume the gun control ideas with some of that in mind, if you please.
    Guns are mentioned in the U.S. "bill of rights"--rather important wouldn't you say? And I would concur that classical liberals, and not modern liberals, were part of crafting that document.
    But how is it that "conservatives" now take guns around the world and tell other people how to live?
    I mean, if they want to live in the 7th century, so be it.
    If they %$@# with us, wipe them off the face of the earth. What's with the police-action, and nation-building, and democracy-planting--AT THE POINT OF A GUN, which distorts the purpose of the 2nd amendment.
    I mean, I don't want these bomb-throwers claiming the 2nd amendment, do you????
    It's great to be alive and pumping oxygen!

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    If you knew history you would know liberals wrote the constitution.

    Check it out...
    I think you are the one who should be checking it out. The split between being liberal or conservative has only widened in the past century. Leaders of centuries gone by were both liberal and conservative, using whichever attitude suited the situation best. The term "renaisance man" used to be a badge of honor and a person of well rounded abilities. Today it seems the extremes are all we care about.

    Would you say that President Bush is either a liberal or a conservative?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
    I suspect that you might have some thoughts on the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

    Maybe you would care to expound on why that amendment made it into a bill of rights, and was not left unenumerated. Not left somewhere out in the cold.
    I certainly do have some thoughts about the second amendment, and especially how it's taken out of context, to suit the needs of the pro gun agenda of special interest groups like the NRA.

    If you look carefully at how the pro gun agenda people spout around the second amendment, you can clearly see that they willfully delete half of the actual amendment to serve their purpose, thereby skirting the actual intent of the amendment.

    The second amendment, in it's written context gives no "rights" to own arms for the purpose of "personal self defense".. It extends the right of the "people" to have access to arms in the intent to form a "well regulated militia" which somehow has been construed into the idea that "all men" shall have access to arms. We have "well regulated militias" already, in the form of each states "national guard units" and the amendment is antiquated and out of step with modern times.

  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by whec720 View Post
    Read the post, Einstein. "just about everbody"...as in just about. Not everbody as a whole. Next time cut and paste my comments more carefully. Get some lessons from geer.
    You are the one with the pipe dream. I just stated the reality.
    Oh I read your comment, and I cut and pasted it with concise understanding of what you where saying. And the goal of the reply was met by you rebuttal post on the issue. But you failed to address the "meat" of the post. Paranoia. what are you scared of? The boogeyman? What caliber is best suited for taking down the boogeyman? .45ACP? or maybe something smaller? How about .40S&W?

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadeinUSA View Post
    What a fricking ignorant statement you made.
    Nothing ignorant about my statement by any means. the statement served a purpose, and that purpose was fulfilled simply by the reply you made.

    If you could not read between the lines, my post is what some call a "troll"... Or a VBB Bomb. It's ment to antagonize all you gun nuts into a "fever", and it worked judging by the amount of responses it got.

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    Nothing ignorant about my statement by any means. the statement served a purpose, and that purpose was fulfilled simply by the reply you made.

    If you could not read between the lines, my post is what some call a "troll"... Or a VBB Bomb. It's ment to antagonize all you gun nuts into a "fever", and it worked judging by the amount of responses it got.

    I take it your Anti-Gun or of the belief that you would give up your guns if it meant the rest of the world would too!

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    I take it your Anti-Gun or of the belief that you would give up your guns if it meant the rest of the world would too!
    Thats right. If we have no guns, then we in lies the problem? Sure, you can beat people to death and stab them, but IMO that more unlikely that how easy one can just pull a trigger from a distance. When you kill someone with a knife, you have to look them in the eye when you do it.

  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    Thats right. If we have no guns, then we in lies the problem? Sure, you can beat people to death and stab them, but IMO that more unlikely that how easy one can just pull a trigger from a distance. When you kill someone with a knife, you have to look them in the eye when you do it.
    ok from that stand point I agree with you.
    I agree to be stabbed in most cases they have to be looking you in the eye, and personally I would rather fight to the death with knives and swords like the warriors of yesteryear than with guns. I belive there's a bit more honor in conflict of a hand to hand combat nature than simply shooting them.

    but realistically speaking, the day we see this planet disarmed of firearms
    is the day you will see A-coils install themselves
    and Refrigerant pipe braze& Leak test itself!

    so until that day comes, I will continue to arm myself as I see necessary
    and collect weapons of many cultures and historical periods!

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post

    but realistically speaking, the day we see this planet disarmed of firearms
    is the day you will see A-coils install themselves
    and Refrigerant pipe braze& Leak test itself!
    There is no doubt that this is true, but the point I am trying to make is that certain firearms have no place among the civilian population. I am all for hunting arms, and have no problem if you own them, but I see no reason why someone needs a AR-15 with a 100 round magazine, and a bayonet lug.

    so until that day comes, I will continue to arm myself as I see necessary
    and collect weapons of many cultures and historical periods!
    The problem with an armed civilian population is that while most gun owners are responsible, they keep these guns in their homes, and places of business. Where do you suppose the criminal element get their guns from? From these "responsible" gun owners. They are one of the #1 stolen items in burglaries. In turn the burglar sells this gun to the thugs, and on and on. So until we legislate so sort of control of how you store your said "responsible" guns to keep them off the street, I say get rid of them.

  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    There is no doubt that this is true, but the point I am trying to make is that certain firearms have no place among the civilian population. I am all for hunting arms, and have no problem if you own them, but I see no reason why someone needs a AR-15 with a 100 round magazine, and a bayonet lug.



    The problem with an armed civilian population is that while most gun owners are responsible, they keep these guns in their homes, and places of business. Where do you suppose the criminal element get their guns from? From these "responsible" gun owners. They are one of the #1 stolen items in burglaries. In turn the burglar sells this gun to the thugs, and on and on. So until we legislate so sort of control of how you store your said "responsible" guns to keep them off the street, I say get rid of them.

    the smart collecter invests in a safe for such things.
    and the Wise Gun Owner consider this practice at least.
    but you are correct in that burglary is a significant reason for guns being on the streets. wether or not these gins are stolen from homes or aquired in the "barrio" by other means i have no idea.

    as for ar-15 style weapons with bayonet fittings on them.
    I agree that there are a number or people that should not have them.
    however what your not being told is that in order for a civilian to try to get one of these in his or her state that allows these theres a much stricter process than you realize.
    1: aside from proving residency for the last 6 months in your state, you must petition with the ATF (Alcohol,Tobacco & Firearms ) national office
    for a permit to obtain and posess a class III weapons permit.
    2: the waiting period is minimum 6 months.
    there is more to this, but I cant think of it all off the top of my head at the moment.

    granted this is the legal process for getting them, and criminals are not doing it the legal way. thats a given.

    I have one reason for you, and my intent is not to change your mind or oppinion it is simply a belief of mine that I have had for many years stemming from my time in the Marines/ Infantry.

    the single reason I see a need for civilians to have the option for this
    type of weapon in addition to what our Police and national guard are assigned: Invasion upon our soil!

    I cannot serve my country again. my time has come and gone, there are younger, leaner and better marines to take my place.
    however gurenteed if we were invaded, you would see my ass once again taking up arms and defending this sacred soil. I know this type of weapon like I know how to tie my shoes. and this is just me. there are millions of us retired and honerably discharged military personel that would defend once again. and know these weapons VERY WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    in our hands they are the deadliest weapons in the world!
    yet also in our hands they are they safest weapons in the world.


    as for civillions that have never served and wish to obtain these legally
    and have passed the guidelines, I belive they should have to undergo and prove completion of certain training courses and their competency.

    again this is my belief, and mine alone.
    there are many like it, but this one is mine!


    kind like my rifle:

    This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    My rifle is my best friend. It is my life.
    I must master it as I must master my life.
    My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless.
    I must fire my rifle true.
    I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me.
    I must shoot him before he shoots me. I WILL...

    My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make.
    We know that it is the hits that count. WE WILL HIT...

    My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life.
    Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel.
    I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage.
    I will keep my rifle clean and ready.
    We will become part of each other. WE WILL...

    Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE.

    So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    I certainly do have some thoughts about the second amendment, and especially how it's taken out of context, to suit the needs of the pro gun agenda of special interest groups like the NRA.
    Perhaps we should consider that other distortions in Constitutional law have predicated this.
    If you look carefully at how the pro gun agenda people spout around the second amendment, you can clearly see that they willfully delete half of the actual amendment to serve their purpose, thereby skirting the actual intent of the amendment.
    Not necessarily, although they definitely can be perceived as having left a lot of room for discussion.

    The second amendment, in it's written context gives no "rights" to own arms for the purpose of "personal self defense".. It extends the right of the "people" to have access to arms in the intent to form a "well regulated militia" which somehow has been construed into the idea that "all men" shall have access to arms. We have "well regulated militias" already, in the form of each states "national guard units" and the amendment is antiquated and out of step with modern times.
    Negative, the reconstructionist in you may be trying to rile up people, but you can do better than that.
    Standing armies could be the problem, and NG units as they are currently applied are only an appendage of standing armies.
    People responsible for their own protection, and with diligent involvement in the local community would, IMO, make up the difference. There is, as with any local level politics, the balance of control with libertarianism. But gun control is only used now as we have strayed away from "no standing armies".
    In that context, people are responsible for their own protection, and then the local level involvement would take care of the "well-regulated" militia--provided that one is properly accountable to the local community.

    It seems that as we now use standing armies, "well-regulated militia" can seem like you have tried to define it. With a proper view of self-determination, we can responsibly govern ourselves, and in this case, protect ourselves, if need be....
    It's great to be alive and pumping oxygen!

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