1. ## recovery tank capacity

OK, I feel stupid asking this question, but here it is...How is the tank capacity calculated? I have a tank that has a W.C. 26.2# T.W. 16.7# I thought the TAR wheight was the weight of the empty tank, but it's not since the tank weighs only 7.7#'s. I used to know this just forgot it and can't find my documentation on it.
Thank You,
gapfaff@engineer.com

2. Originally Posted by gapfaff
OK, I feel stupid asking this question, but here it is...How is the tank capacity calculated? I have a tank that has a W.C. 26.2# T.W. 16.7# I thought the TAR wheight was the weight of the empty tank, but it's not since the tank weighs only 7.7#'s. I used to know this just forgot it and can't find my documentation on it.
Thank You,
gapfaff@engineer.com

W.C. X 0.80 = legal capcity of refrigerant.

Tare weigth is the weight of the vessel itself.

3. So w.c. 26.6 X 80&#37; = 21.28lbs of refrigerant right?

4. Originally Posted by ptemko
So w.c. 26.6 X 80% = 21.28lbs of refrigerant right?
To make it easy, yes.
The "WC" is based on the weight of water it takes to fill the cylinder, many refrigerants, including R-22, take up less volume per pound, so more pounds of refrigerant will safely fit in the cylinder than is indicated by your equation.

There is an equation you can do to figure out exactly how much refrigerant can be put into the cylinder, based on the specific volume of the refrigerant vs that of water, but it is probably best to just keep it simple.

5. ## slides of fill rates

I made this up for my students from information from the National Refrigerants Manual. Notice that the filling factors are for 100% full tank so you'll need to take 80% of the calculated value. The Chart is available in the manual which you should be able to get at any United Refrigeration place.

You'll see if you just use the .80 value you'll be off for some refrigerants, especially 404.

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What about mixed refrigerants? We work with 22 and 410a... My employer doesn't provide one for each so we end up dumping a little 410 into our tanks with the 22. (no, we don't re-use... or at least I don't.)

7. Originally Posted by SirCurmudgeon
What about mixed refrigerants? We work with 22 and 410a... My employer doesn't provide one for each so we end up dumping a little 410 into our tanks with the 22. (no, we don't re-use... or at least I don't.)

Mixing refrigerants is a no-no. Your employer is going to get hit with a nice backcharge for every tank of mixed ref the chemical company has to destroy. It's much cheaper to just do things right.

8. Originally Posted by SirCurmudgeon
What about mixed refrigerants? We work with 22 and 410a... My employer doesn't provide one for each so we end up dumping a little 410 into our tanks with the 22. (no, we don't re-use... or at least I don't.)
Companies like that are why so many supply houses have stopped swapping recovery cylinders for next to nothing.

If things keep going like they have been lately, we will have to take full cylinders directly to a reclaimer....

9. Originally Posted by dawgtchrr
I made this up for my students from information from the National Refrigerants Manual. Notice that the filling factors are for 100% full tank so you'll need to take 80% of the calculated value. The Chart is available in the manual which you should be able to get at any United Refrigeration place.

You'll see if you just use the .80 value you'll be off for some refrigerants, especially 404.
Thanks for the link to the chart.
I hadn't ever looked at the specific density of R-410a before, glad I didn't pop the pressure relief of any recovery tanks, lol.

10. Originally Posted by SirCurmudgeon
What about mixed refrigerants? We work with 22 and 410a... My employer doesn't provide one for each so we end up dumping a little 410 into our tanks with the 22. (no, we don't re-use... or at least I don't.)
Doesn't really matter that your boss told you to do it. The EPA will fine you for any violation you do. But with that said, I don't remember that being a listed violation like intentional venting. Now the law does say that the Reclamation Facility can back charge the contractor for any mixed cylinder that needs to be destroyed. Technically the contractor owns that refrigerant until it is reclaimed, but again do the wholesalers really keep the records they're supposed to?

If the boss cuts corners like this, what else is he doing to screw you and his customers?

11. Originally Posted by SirCurmudgeon
What about mixed refrigerants? We work with 22 and 410a... My employer doesn't provide one for each so we end up dumping a little 410 into our tanks with the 22. (no, we don't re-use... or at least I don't.)
Your supplier will most likely charge him out the wazoo

We got some contaminated/mixed stuff out of a system once, boss went through the roof when he got that bill.

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Originally Posted by mark beiser
Thanks for the link to the chart.
I hadn't ever looked at the specific density of R-410a before, glad I didn't pop the pressure relief of any recovery tanks, lol.
410a recovery tanks are different then tanks for r 22.

13. Originally Posted by berg2666
410a recovery tanks are different then tanks for r 22.
Not anymore, at least from the suppliers in my area.
All the new tanks we have been getting back from our suppliers are rated for 400psi, so can be used for R-410a. They tell me that the old 300psi rated tanks are being retired, or recertified and fitted with a 400psi relief as the test dates expire.
They don't give them any different of a paint job.

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