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  1. #1
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    We Can't Handle God's Truth?

    Here is one reason that I come to ARP.

    Something that Ac and Boot said caused a light switch to be turned on in my head. Something that I had never considered before was brought to light by the words of others.

    Kind of funny too, because this one should have jumped out at me earlier it seems. But it didn’t.

    Ok, so, here is what began the process.

    Acmanko said (from the Respect topic);

    as it stands today it is almost impossible to tell who is correct and who is not. Respect should be extended to everyone. Scienc today has made great strides in the understanding of the Universe, which is why I say God is still busy with creation. The closer man comes to figuring it out the more difficult he makes it.
    My first reaction to this in my head was “ridiculous”. I replied to Ac saying that would mean that God is actively hiding the truth. I felt confidant that other believers would go on to claim that the idea was silly, and we’d move on and forget all about it.

    Wrong!

    Acmanko: In Genesis God forbade man to seek the truth
    Bootlen: [Humans can’t handle] the whole truth...not in these unglorified bodies. Truth would destroy us. God does not want that.
    ga-hvac-tech: If seeing the truth without understanding it were dangerous, would you give it to you kids?
    God views us as kids… and we are to remain kids. Again… where is the developmental path here?

    And so, a simple idea has now left me in a state of complete flabbergastation. Not only is God actively working to keep the truth from man, but believers are ok with that!

    God is actively working to deny me the one of the very big things in my life; the quest for knowledge. I must now wonder, is God capable of actually LYING to me? Why not?

    Let’s suppose that God takes me on a journey back through time to show me all the things that I want to see. Why should I believe Him? How do I know that he did not just construct whatever I needed to see to bring me in to the fold? With all the talk of God and truth, to put this forth is… jaw dropping.

    It seems that some won’t be happy until I am left angry with God and declare myself a full-blown atheist!

    Explain yourselves, gentlemen.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  2. #2
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    Why are you cherry picking only things that you can use to antagonize learning about faith?

    There is not one person on earth who can convert you to having a relationship with God. We can tell you what we believe God has been communicating to mankind through prophets. We can tell you how we have a relationship with God. We can tell you how developing a relationship with God has changed our lives to one more worthy of living and less worisome of dying. What we cannot do is bring you and God together. That is completely up to you.

    To you, faith is bad because you only seek untruth. How can you find something that you are not only not looking for but deliberately trying to prove that what you claim to be looking for doesn't exist?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Why are you cherry picking only things that you can use to antagonize learning about faith?

    There is not one person on earth who can convert you to having a relationship with God. We can tell you what we believe God has been communicating to mankind through prophets. We can tell you how we have a relationship with God. We can tell you how developing a relationship with God has changed our lives to one more worthy of living and less worisome of dying. What we cannot do is bring you and God together. That is completely up to you.

    To you, faith is bad because you only seek untruth. How can you find something that you are not only not looking for but deliberately trying to prove that what you claim to be looking for doesn't exist?
    Who is cherry picking? I was not even the one to raise the issue!

    Besides, even if I were... so what? Basically you are saying that if something is indefensible, that I should turn my eyes elsewhere?

    If you have no answers to these questions, that's fine. If this is how God is, it's indefensible anyway, so whether he exists or not is no longer the question. The question now is, even if I find that God is real, do I want anything to do with such a God? From where I'm sitting at this moment; no.

    Yet, we all think alike as lemmings, so there is something wrong and flawed about me Robo. So you have no need to worry. Your faith remains unchallenged.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Who is cherry picking? I was not even the one to raise the issue!

    Besides, even if I were... so what? Basically you are saying that if something is indefensible, that I should turn my eyes elsewhere?

    If you have no answers to these questions, that's fine. If this is how God is, it's indefensible anyway, so whether he exists or not is no longer the question. The question now is, even if I find that God is real, do I want anything to do with such a God? From where I'm sitting at this moment; no.

    Yet, we all think alike as lemmings, so there is something wrong and flawed about me Robo. So you have no need to worry. Your faith remains unchallenged.
    Well, he did plant all of those fossils just to have a grand guffaw at our confusion.


    If there is a god, he surely has one hell of a mischievious sense of humor and is not at all the pious, uptight, stick in the mud as portrayed in the bible.

    Of that type of God, I could approve.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  5. #5
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    Well, here goes. But only a little way. I still struggle with it as well.

    God is Truth. He said so in the Person of Jesus Christ.

    When Moses encountered God on Mt. Sinai, He allowed Moses to see only His "backside"...His presence as He was drawing away. And even with that, Moses was changed not just physically but spiritually. Had God revealed His full glorious being to him, the Israelites would likely still be in Egypt because Moses' burn body would never have come down from Sinai.

    Truth sheds light on sin and sin is swallowed up in the resulting fire. And if God (Truth) sheds His glory on our sin-laden bodies, we, too, would be consumed by the fire.

    But even if we could handle it physically, we could not handle it mentally. There simply is not room in our finite little brain.

    Only a glorified body will be able to stand up under the whole truth.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Yet, we all think alike as lemmings, so there is something wrong and flawed about me Robo. So you have no need to worry. Your faith remains unchallenged.
    My faith cannot be challenged. It is the one thing that is 100% mine.

    It's my life and I'll do what I want,
    It's my mind and I'll think what I want.


    And you nor anyone else can take that away.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Well, he did plant all of those fossils just to have a grand guffaw at our confusion.


    If there is a god, he surely has one hell of a mischievious sense of humor and is not at all the pious, uptight, stick in the mud as portrayed in the bible.

    Of that type of God, I could approve.
    This is exactly how I see God. If we are truly made in God's image, and God is not physical, then we must be made in God's spiritual image which includes God's character. Pious? C'mon, do you really think God is telling everyone; "I am good, I am great; yea me!" Uptight? This is an idea that was invented so that certain pious species of men can control population and purity of race.

    Nope, God must have a sense of humor because I do. God must be mischievious because I am.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    My faith cannot be challenged. It is the one thing that is 100% mine.

    It's my life and I'll do what I want,
    It's my mind and I'll think what I want.


    And you nor anyone else can take that away.
    See, that's where you've got me all wrong. I am not trying to turn you from God, or turn you in to me. I'm asking you how you reconcile this for yourself?

    You seem to be getting angry with me a lot lately, Robo. If you think I am here only to take you down, then why even bother to reply? Put me on ignore and go about your business.

    It was the free exchange of ideas that brought me to this in the first place. I think that these religious discussions are lessened if you choose not to participate. Solid in your faith, should you not instead be patiently chuckling to yourself about my misguided beliefs instead of getting mad?
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Nope, God must have a sense of humor because I do. God must be mischievious because I am.
    Well, I have never seen clearer evidence that man did indeed create a god in his own image.
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    Well, here goes. But only a little way. I still struggle with it as well.

    God is Truth. He said so in the Person of Jesus Christ.

    When Moses encountered God on Mt. Sinai, He allowed Moses to see only His "backside"...His presence as He was drawing away. And even with that, Moses was changed not just physically but spiritually. Had God revealed His full glorious being to him, the Israelites would likely still be in Egypt because Moses' burn body would never have come down from Sinai.

    Truth sheds light on sin and sin is swallowed up in the resulting fire. And if God (Truth) sheds His glory on our sin-laden bodies, we, too, would be consumed by the fire.

    But even if we could handle it physically, we could not handle it mentally. There simply is not room in our finite little brain.

    Only a glorified body will be able to stand up under the whole truth.
    Ok, fair enough. Maybe you are right that I could not experience the full glory of God without having my circuitry blown.

    Maybe we are talking about two different things here.

    I was especially struck by ACs assertion that God is changing the rules as we explore the nature of the universe through science. What is so glorious in the physical world that would blow our puny minds... if you know what I mean? Or do you disagree with that assertion?

    Maybe we can't experience or understand the spiritual realm, but if God is playing some kind of shell game with us here in the physical realm, well...jeez. I frankly do not like that idea at all.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    Well, I have never seen clearer evidence that man did indeed create a god in his own image.
    And I can think of no better continued proof that you are just an argumentative idiot. By your standards, there is no way to have a discussion that you can't just contradict what others state.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Ok, fair enough. Maybe you are right that I could not experience the full glory of God without having my circuitry blown.

    Maybe we are talking about two different things here.

    I was especially struck by ACs assertion that God is changing the rules as we explore the nature of the universe through science. What is so glorious in the physical world that would blow our puny minds... if you know what I mean? Or do you disagree with that assertion?

    Maybe we can't experience or understand the spiritual realm, but if God is playing some kind of shell game with us here in the physical realm, well...jeez. I frankly do not like that idea at all.

    Ac's wrong about the rules changing. But then, he's wrong about most things.

    Nothing in the physical realm is a mind blower. We're just slow on the up-take. And even slower on accepting faith that is offered by God.

    No shell game, Scrog. He's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The rules never change. Man's understanding of truths of the physical realm are constantly changing while truth itself is never changing. Remember Pluto? Or eggs (good or bad cholesterol). Or salt tablets for water retention? Or any of a thousand other things?
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    See, that's where you've got me all wrong. I am not trying to turn you from God, or turn you in to me. I'm asking you how you reconcile this for yourself?

    You seem to be getting angry with me a lot lately, Robo. If you think I am here only to take you down, then why even bother to reply? Put me on ignore and go about your business.

    It was the free exchange of ideas that brought me to this in the first place. I think that these religious discussions are lessened if you choose not to participate. Solid in your faith, should you not instead be patiently chuckling to yourself about my misguided beliefs instead of getting mad?
    Not angry at all. I am a bit annoyed at the way you have started arguing from a point of view of rhetoric. Are you a law student? Your arguing style has changed and yes, it is annoying.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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