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  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    4,355
    Quote Originally Posted by acjourneyman View Post
    You gotta be freakin kidding me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Nope. True story. Just goes to show, people will buy n' try anything!
    "Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better"
    -Pat Riley

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by whec720 View Post
    Nope. True story. Just goes to show, people will buy n' try anything!

    IF all you need is a TEMPORARY fix on a SMALL leak, Wagner has a product called epox-a-leak. I have used it with success recently on a bubblegum repair for a customer due to changeout an 10 ton condenser. The sytem was flat and the leak was on the pilot line to the reversing valve pilot operator and could not be repaired with a torch and the customer, justifiably so, did not want to approve the correct/expensive replacement of the reversing valve on a unit about to be replaced. The customer was informed as to the temporary nature of the repair and the possibility of it not working at all and gladly approved the work/gamble. (key word being gamble) The epoxy was applied to the leak as directed (properly cleaned and degreased )and while pulling a vacuum to increase odds of penetration. The epoxy was also allowed to cure overnight above 70 Deg ambient. It was checked three weeks later and it was still holding pressure. The circumstances making this repair attempt possible may never surface again, but I was pleasantly surprised by performance of the product, and no, I do not work for Wagner!

    Lastly, in keeping with the theme of the topic, the repair was not attempted under pressure.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,258
    i have repaired a small leak under a very slight vacuum on a chiller at a hospital. it was a hot day and this was the only cooling they had (very poor planning...only 1 chiller for a hospital?!?!?!?) it was a high side leak. i had them turn the tower water down as low as possible and i cycled the chiller down to about 0.1" hg (by the panel). very quick braze up and they were back in business. if they could not have given me a vacuum it would not have worked. and it still took a fair amount of braze rod under those "perfect" conditions (maybe i filled up the 3/8" line ). still not leaking today.

    i would not ever normally try it...but considering it was a hospital...

    just recover or better yet, isolate and repair.

    good luck.
    my 1st time jumping out of a plane...http://youtu.be/Kv38G0MHsGo

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,720
    I don't care how many calls your backed up, there can never be enough pressure to skip proper & safe service procedures. If there ever was, I'd immediately quit and look for another job. You owe it to your family and yourself.
    When you end up blinded or dead, the company your working for will just post a want ad to replace you.
    jogas

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,174
    I agree with Jogas, we should not have to cut corners because of some dumb ass that engineered a building with no redundancy.Next they will expect the economizer gaskets changed on the fly and so on and so on.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,258
    Quote Originally Posted by acjourneyman View Post
    I agree with Jogas, we should not have to cut corners because of some dumb ass that engineered a building with no redundancy.Next they will expect the economizer gaskets changed on the fly and so on and so on.
    oh i understand. this happened to be a small crack in a line. of course, i wouldn't change economizer gaskets on the fly, but my boss tells the story of changing out a leaking valve on the fly on a low pressure chiller while running...he got the new one all doped up and ready...figured that since it was in a vacuum it would suck some air in as he changed it "fast"...he got hosed down with lots of refirgerant and oil (before recovery days)...lesson learned.
    my 1st time jumping out of a plane...http://youtu.be/Kv38G0MHsGo

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    747
    the only time i ever got anything to seal under pressure is water lines. I had a water heater with no shut off valve on it blow. I grabbed a ball valve and with it open hooked it up. I think the pro press is the greatest tool.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,174
    I know you wouldn't Jayguy but there is some dumbasses out there that would, someone posted here awhile back about changing CVHE thrust bearings w/o pulling the gas, there was a guy that bled air off of a chiller in California because it was there only machine and one of the maint guys turned him in and they fired his ass.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N.E. IA
    Posts
    512
    Hey, Jay,

    I wanna meet your boss and compare war stories. I also have changed the charging valve on a 600t. "bench grinder" years ago ---------while it was runnng. Worked like a champ. Whooped once and kept going. Had to do it on the fly because, like your boss, the problem was, even though he had a vacuum, refrigerant is HEAVY. His static head was more than the vacuum level. I needed to change the valve to recover the refrigerant. Had a "catch-22" situation. I knew I didn't have enough vacuum to hold back the head of R-11 charge if the machine wasn't running.

    I've changed 19D oil filters and even an oil pump by maintaining pressure/head relationships. Absorber Techs. do it all the time.

    Back to the origional post. No, you cannot reliably or safely do a braze repair with anything more than a whisper of pressure or vacuum.
    "Wheel" mechanics work on "Wheel" chillers

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,174
    threading in valves is someting I do on the fly, but it is a far cry from brazing with gas in the system.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    11,347

    *

    depending on where the leak is, sometimes you can pump the system down with a pinch off tool

    and then repair the leak, and evacuate, unpinch and start up!



    .

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New Manchester, WV
    Posts
    138
    Over the past two years, I have installed all my refrigeration lines using this instead brazing....Do you think I will have any problems??
    http://www.justforcopper.com/











    Before Anyone blows a gasket...(or a pinhole), I am only KIDDING!!!
    Character is like a tree and reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fort McMurray, AB
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by Airmechanical View Post
    depending on where the leak is, sometimes you can pump the system down with a pinch off tool

    and then repair the leak, and evacuate, unpinch and start up!






    .
    yup, you should of just pumped it down and it probley didnt need a dryer if the leak was on the high side.

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