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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    12

    Advice for new Amana AMV9 & ASX14 install in Wisconsin?

    Hello - I've done some shopping around & a lot of research & I've settled on replacing my 20-30 year old furnace & AC with new Amana stuff (AMV9 & ASX14) from a local HVAC place in Madison called Norstar.

    My main question is, should I insist on a 2-stage thermostat? or is a 1-stage OK? It's my understanding that a 2-stage thermostat would be better because it would cause the high-speed to kick in right away if the temperature difference between actual & set point is big enough. Otherwise, if left to just a 1-stage, the furnace would start out on low, then kick in to high-speed after some amount of time. Is that right? Is this more of a "heat up the house quicker" issue or is it actually more efficient too?

    With this combination of AM9 & ASX14, when running air conditioning in the summer, does the fan stay running even when the outside unit isn't? Or does it only work that way for the furnace? I'm just wondering if this will help even-out the temperature throughout the house during the cooling season as well.

    Also, are there any particular things I should keep an eye out for with this package?

    Thanks much!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,310
    It is a comfort issue. The 2 stage stat lets the furnace do what the house needs rather than time to high. Amana recommends a 2 stage stat with that furnace and most pros on here do as well.

    If the stat is in the FAN ON position, the indoor blower will run at an inaudible, inexpensive low speed for constant circulation and filtration. That's one of the prime advantages of the variable speed unit. Only time you might not want the fan on constantly is very humid weather when this can add slightly to the home's humidity. Fortunately in your lovely area, that isn't much of a problem.

    Nice system!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    12
    Thanks for the info. Sounds like this setup will do everything I want it to.

    One last question though... the product pamphlet for the AMV9 says "And the furnace's Auto-Comfort model helps provide superb dehumidification and energy efficiency during every season." which seems to imply that there is a particular model of the AMV9 that I would need to get for this "Auto-Comfort" feature. Is that right? Or is this a type-o where they maybe mean "Auto-Comfort mode", or something that's otherwise included with every AMV9?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,310
    That's just a delay in ramping up to full blower speed in cooling mode. Trane has done it forever, the rest of the market is doing the same thing now. See page 9.

    http://www.amana-hac.com/Portals/1/pdf/SS-AMV9.pdf

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    139
    I'd also get a quote from High Tech and Landmark in Cottage Grove! Both dealers do very good work!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    12
    Thanks again for the feedback. I decided to just go with Norstar. They already stuck a lot of time into talking to me & taking measurements, doing calculations, etc.. so I don't mind going with them. They installed the new equipment, minus the aprilaire & thermostat last week. The house has stayed pretty cool since then & the dial on my electric meter is spinning a lot more slowly now

    They're coming back to install the aprilaire & a Honeywell IAQ, which should take care of all 2-stage operations (plus some) over the existing wires that run to my old thermostat. I bought a new IAQ on ebay for less than half of what Norstar could sell it to me for, and they said they'd install it. Hopefully, this will leave me with an ideal, energy-efficient HVAC setup.

    Do I need to do anything with my outside AC unit? The fan faces up & rain/snow goes right in there. Should I be concerned about that?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,371
    Do I need to do anything with my outside AC unit? The fan faces up & rain/snow goes right in there. Should I be concerned about that?
    Not really.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,537
    Quote Originally Posted by someraisins View Post
    One last question though... the product pamphlet for the AMV9 says "And the furnace's Auto-Comfort model helps provide superb dehumidification and energy efficiency during every season." ?
    It's been raining in Madison for a couple days and the outside temp 68-80^F. Would you explain how "And the furnace's Auto-Comfort model helps provide superb dehumidification and energy efficiency during every season." My house needs a dehumidifier that removes 70-80 lbs./day of moisture removed during rainy weather, to maintain 50%RH throughout, including the basement. How does the above a/c unit accomplish this? Maybe the answer is the meaning of "helps". Certainly the literature leads one to believe this a/c will provide adequeate dehumidification. Tell me how. Dehu TB

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    12
    I believe the word "model" is a misprint. It should say "mode", because I'm pretty sure Auto-Comfort is a feature of all AMV9's -- it's when the variable speed fan is running at low voltage between heating or cooling cycles.

    The ASX series air conditioners use a coolant that removes humidification from the air first, and then starts cooling down the temperature. At least, that's what I was told. The humidification in my house has hovered between 40%-55% since installation. I have not had the IAQ thermostat installed yet, but it does have specific humidity controls on it... not sure how exactly it will work with my systems yet.

    Also, for your needs, you will probably want a furnace with a variable speed fan so that air is constantly circulating (like the AMV9). How well it circulates the air & evens out the temp/humidity throughout the house also depends on your duct work.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,310
    Many variable speed furnaces have a ramp up mode for dehumidification. Trane calls theirs Comfort R. It just ramps the blower up slowly to get the evap coil cold fast meaning quicker and more dehumidification. That HELPS remove more moisture in mild weather when the unit is cycling more. It doesn't help during long run cycles. You can improve that with the Vision Pro IAQ and the dehumidification on demand feature which slows the blower in times of high humidity to skew the latent/sensible more towards humidity removal. Also, constant blower operation tends to increase the moisture level in the house by re-evaporating the moisture on the A coil after the cool cycle ends and putting that humid air into the home.

    But the real problem is in weather like TB is talking about. 70s and rain. With no heat to remove, the A/C isn't on. It can't remove humidity when it rarely runs. The only unit I can think of that would do any good along those lines is the Lennox Humiditrol system which has a condenser in the coil box to reheat the air after it is cooled and dehumidified and can run without cooling the house. But that is very pricey.

    The coolant in an Amana is no different than any other brand and it does nothing different to dehumidify than any other unit.

    The solution to humidity problems is a whole house dehumidifier than can keep the houes dry regardless of what the A/C is doing.

    http://www.thermastor.com/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    12

    IAQ install questions

    I don't think they installed the IAQ completely. I've got the AMV9, ASX14, AprilAire 600, and the Honeywell VisionPro IAQ. On the module attached to the outside of the cold air return on the furnce, there's 1 wire each going to 1, 2 & 3 (the expected "control" connections from upstairs), 2 wires going into C, 1 into R, 1 into W1, 1 into Y & 1 into G. There's an analogue control for humidity also on the outside of the cold air return on the furnace, but shouldn't it just be hooked into the IAQ module instead?

    AMV9 is a 2-stage furnace with variable speed blower... shouldn't there be another wire for the 2nd stage of heating, plus connections from AMV9's variable speed blower to D1/D/M2 for the AC-driven dehumidification function of the IAQ, plus connections from the Aprilaire 600 to H1/U/M2?

    From the perspective of the IAQ, what is "ventilation"? Do I have the needed hookups with my equipment?

    Also, what kind of logic is used for putting the fan in "auto" mode? Under what conditions does the fan run, and under which does it not?

    They're coming back tomorrow to fix it. Does anyone see anything else wrong with the current setup?

    thanks much!

    EDIT: I hope this post doesn't fall under the taboo DIY clause of the forum rules. If so, just let me know & I'll remove this.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,310
    Well, they don't have it wired for stat control of the 2 stage gas valve. Obviously have that POS manual humidistat doing something instead of the IAQ. Nothing from the IAQ running the humidifier. They gots some wiring to do!

    Auto means the fan cycles with the heat & cool. Circ means it runs about 20 minutes an hour, On means always on. That's the best setting except in humid summer weather when it can lead to higher humidity.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    12
    Everything is hooked up as expected now. That AprilAire even came with an outdoor sensor that works with the IAQ, so I've even got that "frost protection" thing working now.

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