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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    New England
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    906

    Qn for Bryant Dealers: What's the deal with extended warranty?

    So over the last year-and-a-half I replaced my forced-hot-air furnace (in the basement), and central A/C (in the attic, with separate duct system), with 2 Bryant Evolution systems. Based on comments in the forum I decided I should at least get quotes on extended warranty. It turns out that Bryant overhauled their extended warranty program last spring, that it costs the dealer money to offer extended warranties, my dealer doesn't offer them, and
    the local distributor (who is owned by Bryant) tells me now that -no- dealers in my area offer extended warranties.

    [yes, those who know me know my situation is a bit more complicated because a bad dealer installed my systems and then a good dealer fixed them, but the good dealer doesn't offer the extended warranty either].

    On one hand, I'm told that if a dealer offered them, I could be looking at several hundred for each system, on the other hand, I'd like to think I could negotiate, but I'm not even getting a chance to do so.

    I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the new program such that no dealers are signing on. Are there any Bryant dealers out there who can shed some light on what's going on?

    Thanks
    /j

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Beautiful, Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love!
    Posts
    1,089

    Extended warranties are usually third party insurance policies,

    not sure but many be Bryants insurer raised the cost to the dealer. These policies are never free to the dealer, they are hidden in the sales price.

    When Goodman was know as Janitrol, they offered a cheap $150 policy to cover parts and labor, problem was the insurer went broke. All those dealers had very irate customers.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    All of the manufacturers offer some sort of extended warranty program. And there are various venues for third party warranties as well. The problem with most of them is that the HVAC company operates at a relatively small profit margin to begin with and then the warranty companies don't want to pay anywhere near what the HVAC company needs to get per hour to profitably work on a system. That means that the client is happy that the work didn't cost him anything but for that privelege, the HVAC company is paying dearly. Many, if not most of the HVAC manufactures have recently upped their parts warranties to 10-years or even 12 on the top end products. That at least helps the client to some extent but there can be a lot of associated costs to repair a unit over and above the basic failed component.

    If I may, I'd like to try and get a little perspective on the issue, however. If you were to compare your systems to purchasing two automobiles of your choice, which would cost more? Now which would cost more to repair if there were a major failure? Now which is expected to last the longest? What is the cost per mile of the repair? The average HVAC system operates anywhere from 700 to 1200 hours per year. If you drive your car that number of hours at just 30 miles per hour, you can see the relative miles you HVAC system covers in 1-year. 30,000 miles if you're in a 1,000 hour zone. Now let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that you have a major meltdown of the HVAC system after 5-years. The part is covered by the manufacturer but the servicing company gets $1,000 in addition for the incidental work. Based on it having "travelled" 150,000 miles of equivalent automobile use, the cost of that repair is $.00666 per mile. I just had a transmission on a company vehicle repaired. That was a $2,200 bill, no warranty, and the vehicle had 35,000 miles on it for a cost of $.06285/mile. So chances are, the automobile costs you more money, has a shorter life and the repairs are much more costly. The point being, that even if you're paying for everything on the HVAC systems with no warranty, they're still a temendous bargain! Granted, the bills you receive are not pleasant and they could come at a very inconvenient time but on the grand scheme of things, the risks you accept without an extended warranty are relatively small.

    We're a Bryant dealer but haven't been very long. I'll be looking into the extended warranties and maybe I'll have a better answer to your direct question later but unfortunately I can't explain the issue with the other Bryant dealers right now.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    906
    to clarify- I'm looking for BRYANT's extended warranty. Apparently Bryant is now negotiating the labor rate with each dealer individually, but charging startup costs that dealers don't want to pay, because they don't sell a lot of the higher-end systems (which apparently are the only ones they recommend the warranty to their customers for). I agree that if Bryant put a 10yr parts warranty with their top systems this would all be a non-issue.

  5. #5
    I've been dealing Bryant for a few years and it took me a while to even get competitive pricing on their line.
    I can move the Carrier line too, but I'm not getting the good pricing from them that I get from Bryant for now.
    I'm not interested in selling an extended labor warranty at a discount price, even for my best customers.
    Some of my peers sell these extended warranties at prices well under 2K for a complete system.
    As far as I'm concerned, that's giving away alot of money.

    I know that some of the bigger companies are selling them at much higher prices, but they are the exception and not the rule.

    In this coastal area, I cover labor on install related defects for the first year only.
    The rest is strictly factory warranty primarily due to the effects of the climate on the systems in this area.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    6,829
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
    to clarify- I'm looking for BRYANT's extended warranty. Apparently Bryant is now negotiating the labor rate with each dealer individually, but charging startup costs that dealers don't want to pay, because they don't sell a lot of the higher-end systems (which apparently are the only ones they recommend the warranty to their customers for). I agree that if Bryant put a 10yr parts warranty with their top systems this would all be a non-issue.
    Well they do give you a 10-year compressor warranty and 5-years on all other parts of the Evolution systems. And that's the standard warranty with all of their Evolution systems. No extra cost.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    33,929
    Ask the dealers if they use Equiguard? They are a great program.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New England
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    906
    well, you raise an interesting point. the Evolution A/C has a 10 yr compressor warranty, and the Evolution furnace has a lifetime heat-exchanger warranty, so for over a grand to extend-warrant both, is it worth it? however, in this thread

    http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=130581

    people here seemed to think I was a moron NOT to get the extended warranties

    so.... ??? 8-0

    /j

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
    well, you raise an interesting point. the Evolution A/C has a 10 yr compressor warranty, and the Evolution furnace has a lifetime heat-exchanger warranty, so for over a grand to extend-warrant both, is it worth it? however, in this thread

    http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=130581

    people here seemed to think I was a moron NOT to get the extended warranties

    so.... ??? 8-0

    /j
    Life is a gamble. Extended warranties are a gamble. Keep in mind that extended warranty companies are in effect, insurance companies. They only make money when they hand out less than they take in. I simply suggest that you decide for yourself whether an EW is worth it or not. I don't know at what price any other company would be offering it to you. I think you're indicating they didn't offer it at all. That's poor business on their part I'd say but I'm not them. Good maintenance is your best friend on keeping mechanical system surprises to a minimum. Routine maintenance is required to keep the EW validated and the maintenance inspections are NOT paid for by the EW company. The know that if you have good maintenance done at least annually, preferrably semi-annually, the likelihood of failures is greatly minimized. That's why they all require the maintenance. Yes, there is the rist that you could be hit with a $1,000 or more bill through the life of the equipment but my experience is that those failures are generally (not a good word but that's the best we've got) after the 10th year, when the EW has already expired. Like I said, it's a gamble either way.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New England
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    906
    what sort of maintenance is required as often as semi-annually? I change my own filters, and it seems to me these systems otherwise generally take care of themselves. (i.e., in the absence symptoms, all is usually ok)

  11. #11
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    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw_00 View Post
    what sort of maintenance is required as often as semi-annually? I change my own filters, and it seems to me these systems otherwise generally take care of themselves. (i.e., in the absence symptoms, all is usually ok)
    Ah, see? That's why you'd need an extended warranty. You get that, think you['re all set and then WHAM-O. You need a big repair and the warranty company asks for copies of the maintenance invoices for the last 8-years. Don't got 'em? No warranty. Sorry. Breach of contract on your part.

    Our techs perform a 50-point check-up on each and every annual maintenance. There's a 25-point for the 6-month safety inspection. And if you have both furnace and AC attached to it, both units are covered under our maintenance program. Many people think there's little or nothing to be done to an AC unit or HP. Nothing could be further from the truth. A good service tech can find many things to check, lubricate and take readings on. The average AC unit or HP gets the equivalent of 30,000 to 50,000 miles per YEAR on it, using an analogy to a car. So what's the price of regular maintenance? Many if not most companies offer some form of agreement where you get the tune-up(s) included in the price as well as some form of discount and/or priority service, should you need it. If you want the company to be there when you need them, you need to have a relationship with them that's ongoing. IMO.
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  12. #12
    OK here's the deal on Bryant's new program.

    THey aer NOT negotiating labor rates with the contractosrs. The contractor has the choice of 4 labor rates. THis enables the dealer to lock himself into a higher warranty compensation for the future.

    Each bump in labor rate does include a price increase for the warranty.
    I will not get into dealer cost but even if they were to double the price to the homeowner it is still a hell of a deal. Who knows what the labor charge will be for a compressor changeout in 9 years?

    On the contractor side I think that any contractort not offering these warranties on every sale is being foolish. What better way to make a customer for life?

    Call around to more Bryant dealers and you will find one that will help you out. Otherwise contact the BRyant distributor and they will bew able to help you out.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New England
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    tbox8098: Thanks for the straight talk. I am in regular contact with the local Bryant Distributor (which in this case, is owned by Bryant). He has been trying to get my dealer to sign up to offer warranties (they won't as they believe the market is limited to purchasers of higher-end systems of which they sell few), and so has been asking me to wait. Recently I insisted, and he told me that "none" of his dealers offered the extended warranty. There's weird stuff going on with Bryant here recently, the distributor used to be a big in-state private company, but they dropped Bryant (as they were bought by a company that had a relationship with York), and so the CT Bryant office took over as distributor. MANY dealers were recently dropped from their website as well, some who still sell their stuff.

    I don't really know what's going on... But it sounds like I won't get a warranty soon....

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