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Thread: Turbo core?

  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    4,530
    Quote Originally Posted by snipe70e View Post
    When it is on the name plate it usually means at the best conditions.

    The readings were computer generated. Measure gpm, delta t, compare to KW usage. The last place where I worked the read out varried from a low of 0.42 to a high of 0.47 KW/ton. That was actual readings and not theroy.
    if you really are getting these values...then great somebody properly sized the units for your load profile and was paying attention.
    "If you pull one more stunt like you just pulled with Tommy, you won't have to get on a plane because I will personally kick your ass from here to Korea!" - Best of the Best

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
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    2,089
    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    if you really are getting these values...then great somebody properly sized the units for your load profile and was paying attention.
    If you can trust computers. The place had three machines. one 600 tons and two 1000 tons Trane centrificals nice and quite, the pumps made more noise than the chillers. Lowest load that I saw was around 210 tons and highest was 1800 tons.
    Old snipes don't die they just loose their steam

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    26
    Who will be doing the work? Were other options looked at?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    28

    Talking It's the future Boyz

    These things are great the best thing since sliced bread (outside of some software glitches they run so quiet you have to put a hand on the discharge line to tell which compressor is running they soft start on a drive so they pull @ 5 amps on start-up no surges magnetic bearings so there is no friction (spun a cut away compressor with the bearings levitated and I think it still might be spinning), We've installed 2 150 ton and 2 300 ton units in Phoenix 118 days and they just purr allong running @ 40% less amperage then the old Carriers they replaced. The biggest problem is ussually when the McQuay software doesn't want to talk to the Turb-cor software or vice versa ussually a hard shutdown resets all but power tolerance is tight 3% so storms & power bumps mess with the program. All in All very good units and McQuay Mechanic here is real good about upgrades and shring the knowledge.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Western Wa
    Posts
    1,864

    McQuay has it figured out the best

    McQuay has got the Turbocor refined to a science on their WMC line. And it goes through a 36 inch doorway.

    There have been some issues with sweating on the electronics, and a cabling retrofit, but anything you would buy would have those issues addressed.

    If you're going to handle the maintenance and operation, I strongly suggest going to Staunton for the WMC course. Money well spent if you're going to deal with one.

    Definitely stay away from the air cooled approach. They are centrifugal compressors and won't be happy in any kind of high head condition.
    God Bless our Veterans

    God Bless the USA

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bay Area California
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    321
    snipe70e, now I know who you are... hello...we have mcquay chillers in the family but we also have smardt chillers... the austrailian who designed the logic for the compressor created a control panel to run multiple compressors... this kiltech panel is pretty darn good and it comes with a smardt chiller... he can run up to 6. there are multiple configuration options... ie common evap or individual cicruit, water cooled or evap condenser or air cooled, dx air side or flooded evap... the touch screen is easy to navigate and just pretty darn cool. I dont want to advicate any brand or the other, but mcquay is just at 2 compressors last i checked...

    mcquay, smardt and thermal care are the only factories buying in with this technology so far.

    the logic for multiple compressors can be trickey... i am working on some thermal care units on a milk paturizing plant... they move 700,000 gal of milk on a slow month... there plant consists of 6 90 ton 134a skids with individual circuits... plant chilled water setpoint is 29... with the hot loads comming from the plant and then dropping off, staging compressors was challanging... downloading new logic is not difficult and we got a system that is real good...

    i have installed the retrofit kits and new igv assys had some dowel pin issues but other than a couple of things here and there the technology is good... and with a 5 year warranty you cant hardly look away... although i do like a cvhe hz'ed down.

    the main thing with all this is the control intergration... we are staying away from aircooled for a while... some times the lift becomes an issue but more importantly you have to get tricky with your exv control. we probably have 50 compressors in the family.

    currently i am doing a retrofit on a 16 story building installing 120 ton compressor (22) that services 2 floors... so we have 120 ton water cooled condenser and liquid lines that go to 2 30 ton evaps on that floor and 2 30 ton evaps on the floor below. suction lines common... supply fans are on vfd to vav. with out having to worry about the oil all the rules change

    not to many secrets in there (sorry) thanks.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Phila
    Posts
    118
    "mcquay, smardt and thermal care are the only factories buying in with this technology so far. "
    Multistack has been running the multicompressor Turbocor since day one. Also available with Killtec controls.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bay Area California
    Posts
    321
    my appologies to multistack and thier product, you are correct. they use a brazed plate heat exchangers

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    2,089
    Roband others thanks for the info. Should be interessting. I heard yesterday that we are getting a McQuay in one building. The other they are going to pay to have the chiller rebuilt. What a waste of money.
    Old snipes don't die they just loose their steam

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dixie
    Posts
    40

    Thumbs up Smardt Aircooled Chiller

    Quote Originally Posted by chiller rob View Post
    snipe70e, now I know who you are... hello...we have mcquay chillers in the family but we also have smardt chillers... the austrailian who designed the logic for the compressor created a control panel to run multiple compressors... this kiltech panel is pretty darn good and it comes with a smardt chiller... he can run up to 6. there are multiple configuration options... ie common evap or individual cicruit, water cooled or evap condenser or air cooled, dx air side or flooded evap... the touch screen is easy to navigate and just pretty darn cool. I dont want to advicate any brand or the other, but mcquay is just at 2 compressors last i checked...

    mcquay, smardt and thermal care are the only factories buying in with this technology so far.

    the logic for multiple compressors can be trickey... i am working on some thermal care units on a milk paturizing plant... they move 700,000 gal of milk on a slow month... there plant consists of 6 90 ton 134a skids with individual circuits... plant chilled water setpoint is 29... with the hot loads comming from the plant and then dropping off, staging compressors was challanging... downloading new logic is not difficult and we got a system that is real good...

    i have installed the retrofit kits and new igv assys had some dowel pin issues but other than a couple of things here and there the technology is good... and with a 5 year warranty you cant hardly look away... although i do like a cvhe hz'ed down.

    the main thing with all this is the control intergration... we are staying away from aircooled for a while... some times the lift becomes an issue but more importantly you have to get tricky with your exv control. we probably have 50 compressors in the family.

    currently i am doing a retrofit on a 16 story building installing 120 ton compressor (22) that services 2 floors... so we have 120 ton water cooled condenser and liquid lines that go to 2 30 ton evaps on that floor and 2 30 ton evaps on the floor below. suction lines common... supply fans are on vfd to vav. with out having to worry about the oil all the rules change

    not to many secrets in there (sorry) thanks.
    Rob...have you installed any of the Smardt Aircooled chillers yet? I am about to do one for USMC Paris Island and one for a SC Med School. I checked with Fla State Univ...they have a 180 ton and love it, rave about how quiet and efficient it is "more efficient than my Carrier water cooled chillers" he tells me.
    Looks like you guys have installed a boat load of Smardt Chillers...guess you are like kin to Philip and Jeremy. Let me know if you are having any set point drift when the compressors start to max the amps.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bay Area California
    Posts
    321
    navair86...

    sounds like you know the players...

    as we have indeed installed a lot of water cooled equipment... we have stayed away from the air cooled...
    we did install one and had some lift issues, more specifically keeping the the compressor in the map... with proper exv control...

    i would like to hear more about the successful air cooled in fla... with the humid conditions i am sure that at some level they have worked thru the issues as we have...

    question on loosing temp is the the compressor limiting on overcurrent or is there some other limit that is holding it back... for example inverter temp... i think that that particular unit has an advantage as it has multiple compressors... ours only had one so it did not have as much flexibility in control/ staging...

    as we are heavilly involved in the package equipment, my personnal involment has been more on the retrofit applications and design so any feedback really helps not only with commisioning of package equiment but also with retrofit controls layout...

    good to here that this technology is making its way across the country...

    cheers!

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On planet Earf
    Posts
    27

    turbo-cor

    We experimented with a few of them. We suspected they would have a problem in air cooled equipment with slugging. When the engineers and salesmen came to pitch them I asked how the impellers would handle a nice slug of liquid refrigerant or oil in low ambient conditions. He said they wouldn't do so well. EXV is the only way to go but then again any dc controlled device with any amperage draw in the envoirment will corrode over time. Carrier has been using them for a while and Trane a few years after that. They will get all fuzzy when there is alot of dirty power in the building. The starters do not currently have any proper line re-acters to clean it up. Over nice replacement compressor for around a hundred tons or so. Too dangerous to go any bigger in my opinion. Spin too fast. Break crankcase. Dobre Deyn!

  13. #26
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    15

    Smardt info

    Hi, my name is nick, im an apprentice for a commercial ac heating and controls company and we have just installed two smardt chillers at NFL films in Mt. Laurel New Jersey. I dont know if this is the right place to post this but im trying to learn anything i can about these things, they interest me a lot and it would be nice to actually know how they work. If anyone can point me in the right direction i would greatly appreciate it.

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