Turbo core?

[snipe70e]

I have never worked with one. What kind of KW/ton do they deliever?

The reason I ask is our building owners are going to replace the old dead sidewinder machines. The Chief is sold on them as being effecient throught any load. From 50 to 200 tons.

What are others thoughts on them?

[bbdb]

beaware of waranty problems with the turbo core your gona eat labor time no mater what and there will be a warranty call otherwise a great efecient product as long as it ships with the proper cooling orfice as far as kw/toni i know its better than a screw oh yeah one other thing THEY WILL NOT WORK ON AIR COOLED APS

[bobby m]

Why won't they work in air cooled aps.

[snipe70e]

I know the new 123 Trane's run about 45KW/Ton. I wass wondering if the turbo cors can compair.

[jayguy]

I know the new 123 Trane's run about 45KW/Ton. I wass wondering if the turbo cors can compair.

kW/Ton can be very misleading. most are rated at a certain set of conditions. you may or may not have those conditions. i know on the trane's that it can be expensive (options) to get you the really low kW/ton. like it has been said a million times or more on this site, design is more important than absolute kw/ton.

[fixerup]

I have seen two RTAA Turbocor retrofits running for almost a year with no issues.

[roadgear16]

Why won't they work in air cooled aps.

Curious myself.

[hvac_superman]

http://www.turbocor.com/products_technology/energy.html
You can get your answers here.
bbdb what do you mean by cooling orifice? They have electronic expansion valves. We have installed several Thermalcare chillers with Turbocor compressors and had very few problems. One of the installs which we are adding another 180 ton unit to this month, we have not had a single warranty issue. We do have an air cooled unit that we installed and did have cold start issues in the beginning which have since been resolved.

[chiller32]

http://www.turbocor.com/products_technology/energy.html
You can get your answers here.
bbdb what do you mean by cooling orifice? They have electronic expansion valves. We have installed several Thermalcare chillers with Turbocor compressors and had very few problems. One of the installs which we are adding another 180 ton unit to this month, we have not had a single warranty issue. We do have an air cooled unit that we installed and did have cold start issues in the beginning which have since been resolved.

the motor cooling orifice

[snipe70e]

kW/Ton can be very misleading. most are rated at a certain set of conditions. you may or may not have those conditions. i know on the trane's that it can be expensive (options) to get you the really low kW/ton. like it has been said a million times or more on this site, design is more important than absolute kw/ton.

When it is on the name plate it usually means at the best conditions.

The readings were computer generated. Measure gpm, delta t, compare to KW usage. The last place where I worked the read out varried from a low of 0.42 to a high of 0.47 KW/ton. That was actual readings and not theroy.

[snipe70e]

http://www.turbocor.com/products_technology/energy.html
You can get your answers here.
bbdb what do you mean by cooling orifice? They have electronic expansion valves. We have installed several Thermalcare chillers with Turbocor compressors and had very few problems. One of the installs which we are adding another 180 ton unit to this month, we have not had a single warranty issue. We do have an air cooled unit that we installed and did have cold start issues in the beginning which have since been resolved.

Superman Thanks. Good link.
I have never worked with a turocor so I was not sure what they were. My boss has described them as being a series of compressors each like a little V8. And I have my doubts about having a recip more effecient than a centrifical with an adaptive drive.

[izombie]

Im working on turbocors all the time, half of our installations are air cooled condensers. We had some problems when ambient starting creeping above 35'C, but modifying the lag compressors startup routines fixed all of the issues we were experiencing. Recently, we upgraded all compressors with a kit from danfoss to reduce the likelihood of any moisture damage from occurring. Apart from that, they have been excellent compressors.

[bbdb]

they are the Ferrari af compressors i mean you change out a 5h 126 witch weighs well alot not to mention the 150 hp motor thats coupled to it and two guys can carry in the new turbo core compressor that probly weighs about 250 lbs and is probly a fraction of the size and doesnt reqire any lubrication pipe it up throw a couple of exvs in boom big energy savings lower maintence coasts a win win for customers but latley ive been hearing of quite a few problems with them from bad rotors to moisture from condinsation fouling circut boards and wrong size motor cooling orfice as far as air cooled goes i was informed by a danfoss rep that running these in a air cooled ap is not recomended because of higher head preshures

[jayguy]

When it is on the name plate it usually means at the best conditions.

The readings were computer generated. Measure gpm, delta t, compare to KW usage. The last place where I worked the read out varried from a low of 0.42 to a high of 0.47 KW/ton. That was actual readings and not theroy.

if you really are getting these values...then great somebody properly sized the units for your load profile and was paying attention.

[snipe70e]

if you really are getting these values...then great somebody properly sized the units for your load profile and was paying attention.

If you can trust computers. The place had three machines. one 600 tons and two 1000 tons Trane centrificals nice and quite, the pumps made more noise than the chillers. Lowest load that I saw was around 210 tons and highest was 1800 tons.

[anthonyca]

Who will be doing the work? Were other options looked at?

[colddr469]

These things are great the best thing since sliced bread (outside of some software glitches they run so quiet you have to put a hand on the discharge line to tell which compressor is running they soft start on a drive so they pull @ 5 amps on start-up no surges magnetic bearings so there is no friction (spun a cut away compressor with the bearings levitated and I think it still might be spinning), We've installed 2 150 ton and 2 300 ton units in Phoenix 118 days and they just purr allong running @ 40% less amperage then the old Carriers they replaced. The biggest problem is ussually when the McQuay software doesn't want to talk to the Turb-cor software or vice versa ussually a hard shutdown resets all but power tolerance is tight 3% so storms & power bumps mess with the program. All in All very good units and McQuay Mechanic here is real good about upgrades and shring the knowledge.

[Randy S.]

McQuay has got the Turbocor refined to a science on their WMC line. And it goes through a 36 inch doorway.

There have been some issues with sweating on the electronics, and a cabling retrofit, but anything you would buy would have those issues addressed.

If you're going to handle the maintenance and operation, I strongly suggest going to Staunton for the WMC course. Money well spent if you're going to deal with one.

Definitely stay away from the air cooled approach. They are centrifugal compressors and won't be happy in any kind of high head condition.

[chiller rob]

snipe70e, now I know who you are... hello...we have mcquay chillers in the family but we also have smardt chillers... the austrailian who designed the logic for the compressor created a control panel to run multiple compressors... this kiltech panel is pretty darn good and it comes with a smardt chiller... he can run up to 6. there are multiple configuration options... ie common evap or individual cicruit, water cooled or evap condenser or air cooled, dx air side or flooded evap... the touch screen is easy to navigate and just pretty darn cool. I dont want to advicate any brand or the other, but mcquay is just at 2 compressors last i checked...

mcquay, smardt and thermal care are the only factories buying in with this technology so far.

the logic for multiple compressors can be trickey... i am working on some thermal care units on a milk paturizing plant... they move 700,000 gal of milk on a slow month... there plant consists of 6 90 ton 134a skids with individual circuits... plant chilled water setpoint is 29... with the hot loads comming from the plant and then dropping off, staging compressors was challanging... downloading new logic is not difficult and we got a system that is real good...

i have installed the retrofit kits and new igv assys had some dowel pin issues but other than a couple of things here and there the technology is good... and with a 5 year warranty you cant hardly look away... although i do like a cvhe hz'ed down.

the main thing with all this is the control intergration... we are staying away from aircooled for a while... some times the lift becomes an issue but more importantly you have to get tricky with your exv control. we probably have 50 compressors in the family.

currently i am doing a retrofit on a 16 story building installing 120 ton compressor (22) that services 2 floors... so we have 120 ton water cooled condenser and liquid lines that go to 2 30 ton evaps on that floor and 2 30 ton evaps on the floor below. suction lines common... supply fans are on vfd to vav. with out having to worry about the oil all the rules change

not to many secrets in there (sorry) thanks.

[jd 07]

"mcquay, smardt and thermal care are the only factories buying in with this technology so far. "
Multistack has been running the multicompressor Turbocor since day one. Also available with Killtec controls.