I agree with Mark in another post. The idea that the Carrier Infinity is superior because it kills the bacteria and viruses on the filter is nonsense. While it probably does kill the bacteria and viruses, this is a great case of being factually accurate but irrelevant. The small amounts of bacteria and viruses on a filter are not going to be readmitted into the building when the filter is changed. Your kitchen dishcloth or sponge will have far more bacteria and viruses than an AC filter.
This is where I am a little tossed up. I have never been a fan of Electrostatic air cleaners, we can see recently from Trane that's a good thing. Carrier has made some very bold claims on this air cleaner. It still doesn't make alot of sense to me that back in Biology class we learned that mold loves "cold, damp and dark" places yet manufacturers think they can eliminate that problem by electricity? That is why I'm a big fan of UV Lights. I've read the reports of this air cleaner and how it performs with purity of air. However, I still don't understand, Why not use UV?
On a positive note: I will say that I am still floored (in a good way) by the ability of the Infinity to read the filter the way it does. This system still astounds me and have sold like Hot Cakes here in the Central Fl. area.
If this Air Purifier with stands the "Test of Time" like the competitors have not then great. If not, we may have to find another alternative.
I've installed some to date and have found no problems with them.
Placement of UV lights
Two things I would like to clarify.
It does matter where you are placing the UV light and it does matter when using UV lights whether you are going to treat the air or the coil.
There are two principles at work here in achieving a high kill rate using UV - time - time of UV light on contaminant and Intensity - the intesity of UV light on the contaminant.
When treating a coil - you have all the time in the world..the coil's not moving and the light stays on 24/7 - so with unlimited time, you do not need much intesity to have a high kill rate. Thus, whey a 24v object purifier will work.
When treating the air flow - you have just a split second to treat the air. So what do you need to do if you have limited time? Increase the Intensity of the lamp's microwatts. You cannot maintain a high kill rate with low Intensity and low time. Thus why one product does not fit all.
If you are treating a coil, first place you want to look is placing it upstream of the coil, where the air is a bit slower moving and is a more constant temperature. Thus, you will get better lamp effectiveness and a higher microwatt output on the coil surface. Secondly, you need to have a lamp that has a reflector to direct all the UV energy onto the coil. If you do not, then half of the UV light is wasted and could deteriorate wires/rubber hoses, drain pans, etc. You can place the light downstream of the coil, but it will not be as effective as upstream. In an N coil, it's actually better (well in most cases) to treat the air stream rather than the coil. When you are treating an object such as the coil, you will have minimal treatment of air.
However, a better approach would be to treat the air stream. In treating the air stream you purify every living thing in the air flow, thus effectively killing all the food source for the airborne pathogens. If there is no food source in the air, nothing will grow on the coil, In addition you can treat biological and chemical odors. Thus you achieve two things when treating the air rather than just one when treating the coil. And the best place for placement of the UV air Purifier is the return plenum as well.
If you have any more questions please ask.
Not bad for a new guy. How about some credentials. Welcome to the forum.
Last edited by genesis; 08-03-2007 at 05:52 PM.
Hey there Genesis. I saw your products. I'm glad you use reflection to control the path of UV light and to maximize intensity. I work for a Canadian Company called Sanuvox Technologies and like you make sure we understand the true science of UV before introducing a product. Thanks for the welcome.
Hey Kelly I have meet alot of you guys at the trade shows at AHR Expo. Sanuvox had a booth right behind ours in Dallas last year.
Cool, I wasn't with Sanuvox at the Dallas show, but was with another company at the show, but yeah, it seemed all the UV companies were in the same general vicinity. Well good to meet you. Will you be at the New York ASHRAE?
Are you in Lubbock? I was just up there last week. I'm in Fort Worth and cover all of TX/LA/OK/MS for Sanuvox. We should meet up next time I'm in Lubbock.
I have sold and installed around 25 Carrier Infinity Air Purifiers as well as several Lennox Pure Air filtration/purification systems without a single complaint! I personally have the Carrier Infinity Purifier in my home and love it. I've received absolutely no complaints from customers on either brand, however, I have received a lot of compliments on how well they like them. Several customers have told me that they sleep better, their allegies aren't as bad, etc. So they are obviously both excellent products. Lennox is claiming that their new Pure Air will indeed kill 90 percent of bioaerosols and VOC's but I do not have any proof of that. Consumers absolutely love both systems. I would assume the Lennox would do a little better based on the fact it does have UV lights and a replaceable metal insert coated with catalyst that's activated by the two 55 watt UV lights that supposedly break down chemical vapors and odors into carbon and water. The Lennox Pure air does have more residual maintence cost than the Carrier due to bulb replacement and metal insert replacement, but then what is the customers ultimate objective? How much difference does the VOC's and the odors make in the big picture? I love my Carrier Purifier and do not personally care about spending the extra money to kill the chemical vapors and odors? But that's just me. You will love the Carrier Infinintiy Air Purifier, it's a great product.
Keith call me . I got a great restaurant a couple of blocks from the shop.
I may be on the road the whole month of September doing installs in Hospitals or a river boat.
I'm new here. Glad to meet all of you.
Anyone out there experienced with troubleshooting a Carrier Infinity Air Purifier (model GAPAB). Just noticed on the "Power-On" LEDs cycle on & off every 30-40 seconds when the air handler is running and stay off when the air handler is not running. This tells me the airflow sensor is responding the airflow. Any thoughts? Sure could use the help.
I'm sending this 8 years after your post but wondering if you are connected with the Genesis system. I think I may have talked to you recently about putting your equipment into residential property. If that's you, can we talk?
Commenting on these concepts is like walking through a cow pasture at night. You will step in it sooner or later.
IAQ has many aspects.
Primary is fresh filtered air change. An air change in 4-5 hours when occupied is basic. Cold windy weather is like a blower door test and best of homes will change more than the minimum. Yet leaky homes get as low as an air change in 12-24 hours during moderate outdoor temperatures and calm winds. So most homes would benefit from mechanical fresh air ventilation at certain times of the year when occupbied.
Maintaining <60%RH is next most important to avoid bacteria, mold, and dust mites. Avoiding low %RH is more a comfort issue and drying out wood inside a home. +24 hours of extreme humidity will grow biological in most space because of the abundant supply of organic material and spores. Most biological organisms can not be active in dry spaces. Well designed cooling coils/pans will wash themselves with condensate draining and drying between cycles. Operating the a/c blower for 2-3 hours everyday would be a lot to limit biological growth in the a/c system.
Carrier over states the effect of CO2 on occupants. CO2 is more an indication of air change rates and how many occupants in the space. +2,500 ppm CO2 occurs most spaces without known bad effects like a bedroom with door closed or meeting/classrooms. OSHIA requires limiting +5,000 ppM CO2 for more than 8 hours in industrial sites.
The idea that you can go to a home and do quick monitoring to tell the problems is a dream.
Because of the variable weather and occupancy rates makes monitoring more a constant need not a 8 hour snap shot.
Air filtering should be a minimum of merv 11 for most mainly to keep the equipment clean. Most particulate settles to the horizontal surfaces in the home instead of getting caught in the air filter. A central vac with an outside exhaust or a Hepa vac is good concept.
In certain applications, all of these other gadgets are of some value.
Fresh clean air change, +merv 11 air filters, and maintain <50-60%RH are most important basic indoor air quality.
Green grass climates are most challenging because of extended high outdoor dew points and all the pollens and mold spores in the air. In most case a well designed whole house dehumidifier with the ventilation and controls option is important.
All a/c contractors will benefit from understanding the how the a/c, air filtering, ventilation, and dehumidification interacts to provide the basics for IAQ. All are critical.
Hope this helps.
Regards Teddy Bear
Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"