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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Orange County, New York
    Posts
    1,460

    AC in a Kitchen and Exhaust Fan

    I have this ice cream stand...very small but they have a 5' grill with a 6' hood. They have exhaust air with makeup air, but the makeup air blows out the front. The customer just cannot understand that they installed the wrong hood in their kitchen. Does anyone have any info they can e-mail me about hoods, air conditioing, and makeup air?

    All ref equip is water cooled. Problem is when it gets 95 out and they have the exhaust going alone or if they have the exhaust hood going with the makup air blowing out the front. I told them they should have it blowing inside.

    Any help explaining this to a thick customer is appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    12,227

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Sounds like the OP is talking about wanting a short circuit hood, POS in my opinion

    I like the ones that blow down the back Lusk
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Boise Idaho
    Posts
    1,032
    the air out side the hood is not a problem, you could have a compensating hood or standard hanging plenums or even registers in the ceiling outside the hood and they all work some slightly better.

    your problem is the supply air is hot, which is the same as the outside temperature. sounds like you have a supply fan with no cooling in it. In many climates instead of a supply fan, we use a evap (swamp) cooler to temper the air to make it more barable for the kitchen staff.

    is the water off to it by chance?

    matt

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    12,227
    I've read this over and over.... Steve doesn't say there is a problem just that the hood blows out the front which is no big deal.

    What is the actual problem?

    The customer doesn't have to worry about the hood construction.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Boise Idaho
    Posts
    1,032
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacsteve82 View Post

    All ref equip is water cooled. Problem is when it gets 95 out and they have the exhaust going alone or if they have the exhaust hood going with the makup air blowing out the front. I told them they should have it blowing inside.

    Any help explaining this to a thick customer is appreciated.



    1) the make-up on the outside of the hood is fine, otherwise i have a lot of hoods to tear out.

    2) whenever the hood is on they must run the make-up air otherwise they will suck out the a/c air / and or create a negative which will cause other problems since that hood is moving around 2000 cfm.

    3) the all the hoods I do have a control panel to turn make-up on with the exhaust. only thing that is seperate is the pumps if there is an evap. customers in restaurants are dumb and will leave the hood off and just start cooking, next thing you know, via the chimney effect the fussible link melts, fire supresion tanks dump and the health department has you shut down.

    again, focus on the ice cream problem, they even have 6" inches of hood overhang, sound good to me.

    matt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    306
    I think the problem may be that they have 5' grill in the first place. If it's an ice cream stand, what is a 5' grill doing there?
    Leadership...the ability to move forward even when you've burned your foot.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Boise Idaho
    Posts
    1,032
    5' grill 6' hood, thats perfect, I see lots of people that think 6' means 6' of equipment.


    remember, if you are on a call to fix the tayler frozen bev dispensor, you shouldnt be worried about the new hood unless you know what you are looking at. could backfire on you, your company or the other company could get a call about something you dont know anything about.

    matt

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Orange County, New York
    Posts
    1,460
    I realized my post was vague. These long days are catching up with me.

    The customer I have has air conditioning in the kitchen. On the 95+ days the place will not stay cool. Last time I was here 100 degree air was blowing INTO the place from the frontal discharge make up air from the hood. I told the customer it should discharge the makeup air into the hood, not outside the hood. I got some information from greenheck and some other sites showing how those hoods are not designed for our climate.

    When they use the system on 80 degree or less days the place is fine. The makeup air blows right at a return in the kitchen. The return is 9 feet away from the hood.

    The customer is starting to get very annoyed at me and they do not understand they have an incorrectly designed hood for this application when they want a conditioned kitchen.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    12,227
    My next question would be this and I believe it was brought up above too.

    Air balance and heat load.

    I understand small kitchen, that's OK

    I understand grill heat and outside ambient air @ 95* +

    Is there enough b-t-u to cool their b-u-t-t?

    You may have already worked with this but did you or can you slow down the exhaust and the make up air speed? Is there an OAD on the AC unit or can you install one.

    Reason... exhaust system running too fast pulls out a lot of AC air. You compensate with make up... 95* make up.... that seems to be your real problem, right?

    Suggest, if you haven't already, turn off the make up air. Slow down the exhaust. Open up the OAD if you have one. Start the make up air and adjust it's speed to give the building a slightly positive air balance.

    Not being there makes it tough so all I can suggest is a WAG (wild ass guess)

    The front blast from the make up can be diverted up or redirected. Matters not where the air blows as long as it "makes up" the exhausted air.

    You probably have already worked on all of this and I know I am not answering your real question. "Where can you find literature showing you are correct in what you are telling your customer". Unfortunately I, like some others here, don't think you are correct by telling them the hood is wrong and are steering you to balance the building pressure by reducing exhaust and make up speed and give your ac a chance to catch up.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    steve, are you talking about prefering a hood where the make up air is supplied inside of the hood?

    or one where the air blows down from the make up plenum on the front of the hood as opposed to out the face of the plenum into the kitchen?
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    swamp cooler on the make up as already suggested could make them happy
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

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