Waterfurnace Envision 5 ton question

[Bergy]

Martincf,

Part of the problem is you did not purchase the unit from Water Furnace. The purchase was from the contractor, making the contractor your contact. Water Furnace will always refer you back to the company you bought the unit from. Any parts relief will have to go through the contractor.

Bergy

[mldncx1]

What does that mean? The installer "buys down" the manufacturers warranty? How does that work?

This is still my problem......Waterfurnace should not allow installers to buy down a warranty. I bought a Waterfurnace, for their 10 year warranty only to find out an installer "Buys Down" their warranty. In my case my installer is covering some of the costs, of which I have no idea what they were. I know I paid $2,350.00 for the replacement of the air coil at 6 1/2 years. Waterfurnace built it and it failed. 6 days later my compressor failed and overheated my desuperheating tubing, which flooded me out. My installer replaced the desuperheater circulation pump, and the compressor, and the full electronics panel, due to the water spraying it. Now I have a unit with mostly new parts and no warranty, never had an option to purchase additional coverage. I trust my installer that if with in a certain time period if those parts fail they would cover that too. I guess you have to put some faith in your installer to be fair.

[mldncx1]

Can anyone explain to me the term "bought down the warranty"?

For future readers of this thread, once again, THE INSTALLER BOUGHT DOWN THE WARRANTY, so wouldn't you be mad at them and posting their name all over the internet instead of the manufacture? Yes your coil went out, but that should have been $0 if IT WAS INSTALLED properly, not the manufactures fault it was bought down(not installed to your 10 year warranty spec). I will also tell you that if a compressor fails days after a coil install... that person did not install the coil properly, it is about a 1 in 10,000 chance of that happening and being manufacture related and not installer related.

So please, tell me how its the manufactures fault when they sold a product to somebody who LIED TO YOU and yet you still say you trust your installer???

As I said before, I am not posting this to stand behind Waterfurnace, I am posting this so any future consumers on this site(which is what this site is for) can read the correct information and hear all sides of the story so they know what questions to ask their INSTALLER, since I see nothing above that is the manufactures fault, or if it was their fault would have cost you any money, had you chosen a different installer.

[SkyHeating]

Can anyone explain to me the term "bought down the warranty"?

WaterFurnace sells their units standard with a 10 year parts and 10 year labor warranty, however, many other manufactures have a lesser warranty so their units cost a bit less, in a price sensitive situation, the contractor has the option to deduct $XXX from the price in order for the unit to come with a lesser warranty, so in essence they are "buying down the cost" of the equipment. WaterFurnace(and other manufactures) often allow this practice since it is up to the dealer to warranty the equipment as WaterFurnace will only pay a certain amount for a repair as with any other company. In some areas a repair may be 2-3X the cost of what the manufacture pays so some people prefer to warranty the equipment themselves too. In the end, the only "real" warranty you have from the manufacture is from parts the rest is taken care of by the installer and this is why you will always read on this site how important it is to select an installer first and equipment second.

The problem is, a manufacture can not warranty something that is not theirs, and yes while the equipment is theirs the installation is not. Would you expect a car manufacture to give you new body panels if you ran into a wall? No way, the car was used improperly, yet everybody wants heating equipment manufactures to pay when something was not used(installed) properly and this is where customers get confused. Relate your issue to a car, if the car manufacture would take care of it then the manufacture of HVAC equipment probably will such as a good install when a compressor goes bad, could be related to a car with regular maintenance needing a new engine. However lets say a unit was installed improperly, does not have the required airflow and the loop operates outside of temperature ranges and a compressor goes bad, why should the manufacture give you a compressor? A car manufacture would not give you an engine if it had no oil changes and a plugged air filter.

[mldncx1]

Thanks, Sky! I agree with you. I see nothing wrong with that practice. I believe the bulk of the responsibility should be on the contractor.

WaterFurnace sells their units standard with a 10 year parts and 10 year labor warranty, however, many other manufactures have a lesser warranty so their units cost a bit less, in a price sensitive situation, the contractor has the option to deduct $XXX from the price in order for the unit to come with a lesser warranty, so in essence they are "buying down the cost" of the equipment. WaterFurnace(and other manufactures) often allow this practice since it is up to the dealer to warranty the equipment as WaterFurnace will only pay a certain amount for a repair as with any other company. In some areas a repair may be 2-3X the cost of what the manufacture pays so some people prefer to warranty the equipment themselves too. In the end, the only "real" warranty you have from the manufacture is from parts the rest is taken care of by the installer and this is why you will always read on this site how important it is to select an installer first and equipment second.

The problem is, a manufacture can not warranty something that is not theirs, and yes while the equipment is theirs the installation is not. Would you expect a car manufacture to give you new body panels if you ran into a wall? No way, the car was used improperly, yet everybody wants heating equipment manufactures to pay when something was not used(installed) properly and this is where customers get confused. Relate your issue to a car, if the car manufacture would take care of it then the manufacture of HVAC equipment probably will such as a good install when a compressor goes bad, could be related to a car with regular maintenance needing a new engine. However lets say a unit was installed improperly, does not have the required airflow and the loop operates outside of temperature ranges and a compressor goes bad, why should the manufacture give you a compressor? A car manufacture would not give you an engine if it had no oil changes and a plugged air filter.

[Stucker]

I understand the complaint is with the contractor, but if I had WF literature saying it had a 10 year p&L warranty then I would be dam sure to get a 10 year p&L with it.

[SkyHeating]

I understand the complaint is with the contractor, but if I had WF literature saying it had a 10 year p&L warranty then I would be dam sure to get a 10 year p&L with it.

The literature says "backed by one of the best warranties in the industry" in everything I can find. Can you show me where it states all units come with a 10 year P&L warranty?

Plenty of other brands say "up to X warranty"

[wlcoleman1]

The middle of this month I am attending a 3 day class on servicing WF. I don't know a lot about them and thought I would come here and get familiar with them so I don't walk in looking stupid. This is the second thread I've opened and its just like the first.

[Bergy]

So what.... you don't know much about Geo. You are in a class to learn. There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. If you don't know what the instructor is discussing ask them to explain.

[wlcoleman1]

Water Furnace put on a great seminar. I gathered as much info as I could put my paws on. DVDs and manuals. They're not collecting dust, I'm wearing them out.

[GT1980]

be sure to check other rationale with one of the very oldest trainings and the likes of the McQuay Geothermal Manual; AR co since 1977 GTHP Contractor's Magz AUG 2004 "...simple" Hydro-Temp com (many firsts and patented Priority) their tech manuals- logic; and Hydron- Enertec of IL and a Climate Master training literature .

[GT1980]

was cert WF and still fix what others wont with them...