! -George Carlin
ReplyMark I think all that rain you guys have gotten has gotten to you.
Professional Member*
OH NO, the LIVING ORGANISMS are gona jump out all over the place!Originally Posted by HVACXPRT
Oh wait, all of us are already infested with millions and millions of nasty viri and bacteria, not to mention the really scary looking microscopic insects that live on us all.
I won't knock the Carrier air cleaner, but how much do the new filters cost for it?
Professional Member*
Mark I think all that rain you guys have gotten has gotten to you.
Professional Member*
No, I just find it amusing when people go on about all the nasty living organisms that are going to jump out of a filter and fly all over the place when they pull it out for cleaning.
In all seriousness, I'm glad I wasn't raised in a sterile home environment.
More research is needed, but the few small studies that have been done, that I have seen, indicate that people that grow up in overly cleaned/sterilized environments have weaker immune systems and are more prone to developing asthma than those of us that grew up in the country playing in dirt.
Professional Member
Our TM (for what it's worth) said that out of 108,000 Clean-Effects in place, 7 have been repoted with arcing and every one of them were installed in an up-flow system. Possibly, condensate dripping onto the electronics, possibly something else going on. According to him, Trane is going to replace the "defective" parts on ALL systems.
BTW...7 reported out of 108,000 is not something I would call major..unless it was MY home.
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No, I just find it amusing when people go on about all the nasty living organisms that are going to jump out of a filter and fly all over the place when they pull it out for cleaning.
In all seriousness, I'm glad I wasn't raised in a sterile home environment.
More research is needed, but the few small studies that have been done, that I have seen, indicate that people that grow up in overly cleaned/sterilized environments have weaker immune systems and are more prone to developing asthma than those of us that grew up in the country playing in dirt.
Thank-You Mark. My thoughts exactly.
Regular Guest
I don't think 7 is accurate at all.
The arcing problem was present w/ least 2 or 3 of the units I had installed b/4 they de-installed both of mine completely. Mine are both horizontal mounts with VB AH with next to no moisture as this is Phx and these are in the open attic.
Trane was not shooting straight on this since Nov when they said they would have this fixed by Jan--in Jan the TM was onsite and denied there was even a problem or that any changes were coming.
Given over 100K claimed installs my vote would be Trane is trying to keep this quiet... Where's the public recall info as well as CPSC info?
Our TM (for what it's worth) said that out of 108,000 Clean-Effects in place, 7 have been repoted with arcing and every one of them were installed in an up-flow system. Possibly, condensate dripping onto the electronics, possibly something else going on. According to him, Trane is going to replace the "defective" parts on ALL systems.
BTW...7 reported out of 108,000 is not something I would call major..unless it was MY home.
Endeavor Team
No word yet. As soon as I know, you'll all know.
Professional Member*
Kudo's to you Mr. Editor. In fact my Trane rep thanks you too. Your posting informed both of us better the Trane has.
As hard core Trane as I am/was, (was-OK Baldy/Boyd-it happened), I did NOT like the way this product was RAMMED down the throats of the Trane dealers in every way they could think of. We, that is all the Trane dealers I know in my area, as well as those from here, (HVAC-TALK-me) and Service Roundtable, (-my partner), were skeptical.
I can only hope that the Trane people find a way to be more informative and INFORMED. I think it is a shame that for the most part I have to rely on this site and not Trane for issues with their equipment.
Professional Member
I agree with Stamas. It is a pleasure to have good, accurate information from a Forum on the Internet.
On balance I think the American Standard/Trane folks have handled this situation well so far. Sure this product was agressively marketed. However, you really see how companies perform when there is a problem. It really doesn't matter whether there have been 7 failures or 700 failures, the company has identified the potential hazard and is working to resolve it. What remains to be seen is how well they will implement the solution with replacement parts, accurate information, coverage of dealer labor, etc.
Professional Member*
I got an e-mail from my rep. Said they where changing out the cells with a 200 M-ohm resister in the new cells.
Regular Guest
I think Trane/American Standard handled it the ONLY way it could be handled where/when the potential problem became a possible known issue. Any other way to handle it would be a public relations nightmare.
How many of us has gotten a cat tip from a manufacturer and thought of would could be a serious potential problem if certain events would happen with the issue in question? No one ever hears about that because the problem never happened, however, the scary part is it could.
As mentioned before, and I think I said it as well, for the "hardball" Trane/American Standard played with it's dealer on pushing this product, well, I'm figuring at best, internally, a couple people at American Standard/Trane will be on the unemployment line.
Regular Guest
Why do you think they pushed it down our throats. What they did was offer us a product that surpassed even Hepa filtration at a fair price and with their advertising bucks behind it. From the calls i have heard the home owners love them and all they are worried about is getting theirs back on. I recently was away from home for a week and was relieved to go home to mine(gas furnace application). They did attatch it to rebates and they did have meetings to push it but guys we are in the HVAC business, that means total indoor comfort and that includes IAQ!!!! A large majority of companys out there still just sell boxes when it takes so much more to make a home truley comfortable.
Regular Guest
Needless to say markets may vary.
Yes, it's a decent product, but depending on whose information you use, I don't think it's the "cure all" as was pushed (the first tip off is when you here 99% or along those lines as far as effectivness sp?)
I'd argue about your "fair price" comment. For what some of the guys are charging for a air cleaner install only, there are many more options available to the homeowner that offers not only comparable indoor air quality, but but better comfort. That is only my opinion, and we all know what they are like.
At least in my market, Trane/American Standard has a habit of TELLING YOU what they want you to do. There is a difference between telling and asking.
Endeavor Team
The following has been posted on the Trane website:
"If your CleanEffects air cleaning system was installed before May 29, 2007, your independent Trane dealer will be contacting you (or already has) to schedule a brief appointment to replace the collection cells in your unit.
In keeping with our commitment to quality and reliability, we wanted to provide important information to help you understand why we are doing this, what you can do, and who you can contact with questions. We appreciate your taking time to review the following information to learn more."
Trane has provided the following links for consumers:
CleanEffects Recall
AccuClean Recall
These links will provide downloads (PDFs) of Trane's recall letters for consumers who purchased Trane Clean Effects and American Standard AccuClean filtration equipment.
Last edited by The Editor; 07-09-2007 at 11:41 AM.
Professional Member
I just cleaned my Accuclean prefilter for the first time and noticed hair in the collection cells. Maybe their problem is the huge 1/8" gap behind the collection cells that lets big particles through?
I mean I can see hair possibly causing arcing and sparking.......
"And remember my sentimental friend......that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others" - Wizard of Oz.
Regular Guest
I got my letter even though Trane de-installed my units several months back.
Don't know what the new cells look like but the problems I saw with the units weren't likely moisture given this is the desert Phx, AZ and it was during our dry season. Techs told me 1 problem was with the contacts which needed to be re-designed as they didn't always make a good connection--bending them open more sort of helped but corrision was still present.
My reported problems b/4 deinstallation were arcing, corrision, noisy corona, and high ozone output when used with Trane VS AH in continuous fan mode enabled.
Anyone seen the new design as I'm curious what's really different?
Professional Member
I sent all my customers a letter saying they need to pay me $455 so I can order their new collection cells. When I get reimbursed then they get reimbursed so it doesn't cost me or them anything.
"And remember my sentimental friend......that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others" - Wizard of Oz.
Professional Member*
My distributer says that Trane is focusing on getting new air cleaners out rather than the replacemnt cells for the problem units. If I want a new one for a new job, no problem. If a want to get the replacement cells for the ones already out there, "you'll/they'll have to wait". Unless they are making a big stink about it. So those of you that want these cells -B!TCH!
Regular Guest
I hope that's not true...but have a bad feeling it is.
I had a complete Trane heat pump system installed about 6 weeks ago. It included a Clean Effects unit. I haven't heard jack squat from my dealer. I had to call them before they told me to just turn it off and sit tight. I have not received any notification from Trane or been given any information by my dealer.Thank goodness for this website...or I'd be clueless.
What should I expect from my Trane dealer at this point? I didn't pay top dollar to have a non-functioning air cleaner. I don't expect to have this thing turned off for another two months. If it isn't working within the next 60 days, my dealer can come and remove it and give me my $,$$$ back. Am I being unreasonable?
I'm trying to cut my dealer some slack. However, if I find out that they are out installing new units while they throw me under the bus to wait for replacement cells, I will demand my money back and write Trane one hell of a complaint letter.
New Guest
My clean effects is a furnace application. No water leak problems what-so-ever. About two weeks ago, around 5 am, that unmistakable sound of arching woke us up. I looked at my husband and asked if that was what I thought it was (I'm the one handling the recall CRAP at our a/c company). "Son of a b#@&*" as he jumped out of bed to turn it off.
As you can imagine, this blew our distributor's mind. The response was "that's impossible." Don't know what else to tell them, but they can have the whole dang thing to "investigate" it if they want. Just give me a new one because we're miserable without it! This incident has also been reported to Trane.
Just a heads up, there MAY be a problem with furnace applications as well. So if you get a call from a customer you won't be scratching your heads.
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