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  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Wiscoinsin
    Posts
    73
    We sell tons of mechanical equipment, and they still won't let us have the training. The problem is that Trane is a supplier and a Contractor. They need to be one or the other. They are competing directly with the people they supply equipment to!! We put in their equipment, then they compete for the service, and don't allow us to take the controls classes unless we sell X amount of their controls. Then we put them in, and they come along and compete for the control service. What do you think that does for the business relationship. If you are going to be a manufacturer, then be one! Sell your equipment to the Contractors, and let the contractors service them.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,145
    Smokies, maybe the numbers are different in other areas but these are the numbers we were told. I dont have access to the numbers but I would guess that we buy a million $ + of Trane equipment a year. We are 'Trane Contracting Partners'.

    A little while back I wanted to go to the regional Comm 5 training that was being held all over the country. A two day class. It was denied by the local office unless we signed a contract agreeing to the figures that I gave. We're not talking Summit or anything more meaningful in Trane controls.

    Do I understand you right, 250k is a 'standard' sales quota? Who else do you rep? We talked to a lot of people and everyone was under 100k. Most by half.

    Zarembad, I agree with you 100%. They should not be competing against the local contractors (their customers) for service. They need service people to do factory start-ups and warranty work but they should not be competing in controls and maintenance. If we have a warranty issue and call the local branch they tell us they are too busy and cant get to it for a few weeks. We should do the repair and submit for it. Of course they will never reimburse what it cost you. The reason the service guys are too busy is because they are out taking the contractors work away.

  3. #16
    Zarembad and Dapper -

    I'm glad I'm not dealing with the samething you guys are. Sounds like a local issue. I don't think corporate Trane cares which contractors go to the classes. Looks like your local reps or someone at the office is keeping you back. We won't rep a line we don't have full factory training and support. If local Trane tells you it a corporate issue, their full of it.

    Our goal is nowhere close to the $250K - that doesn't seem realistic for a goal as a private contractor. Its close to the lower amount. In todays plan and spec market I don't see anyone hittin $250K with Trane controls. Its hard enough to be competitive against Delta,Alerton,Circon, Invensys (TAC), etc.

    Well good luck guys - I would have a talk with local Trane and if they aren't willing to work with you then move on. If your mechanical contractors, have a sit down with another manufacturer. Its unrealistic to be expected to learn as you go.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    572
    Quote Originally Posted by dapper View Post
    Zarembad, I agree with you 100%. They should not be competing against the local contractors (their customers) for service. They need service people to do factory start-ups and warranty work but they should not be competing in controls and maintenance. If we have a warranty issue and call the local branch they tell us they are too busy and cant get to it for a few weeks. We should do the repair and submit for it. Of course they will never reimburse what it cost you. The reason the service guys are too busy is because they are out taking the contractors work away.
    so will anything ever be done about it? competing with your own customers for business and employees does not make sense to any business minded person. i believe that the problem is that the company is not structured as "one" company, but as several companies with "one" name. It is up to the private contractors and trade organizations to demand change from the manufacturers. The manufacturers are owned by business people. If you want change, there's only one way to get it, and that is to hit them in the pocket (just like they are doing to the private companies).
    mike

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    I'm fine with the plugins. It's a start. I do think they would only offer them if they lost business or there was a business opportunity. (Army Corps?)

    Anyway, going elsewhere usually does it. Personally, I think more contractors need to get savvy with alternate construction methods to minimize impact from these large manufacturers.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by smokies View Post
    We won't rep a line we don't have full factory training and support.
    Awhile back we were looking at being a dealer for Trane Controls, and the standard agreement that we were pointed to on the Trane website specifically stated that we would not sell, service, or support any other controls line but Tranes. How did you work around this clause?

  7. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Wiscoinsin
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarakian View Post
    Awhile back we were looking at being a dealer for Trane Controls, and the standard agreement that we were pointed to on the Trane website specifically stated that we would not sell, service, or support any other controls line but Tranes. How did you work around this clause?
    We were offered this distinction, without having to drop all other lines, simply by buying enough equipment. The problem is, even with them stating this, they will only supply you enough training to make you dangerous!! So you end up putting in the controls, servicing them(to an extent), and if the fix is something factory related, or extremely complicated, Trane tells you their techs have to fix it as a sub to you. Well what do you think the customer thinks when you put in controls, and then have to have Trane come in and fix them?? They start thinking, "If I have to call Trane anyway, why don't I hire them to service my equipment?" Then Trane Service swoops in, and "poof" your account is gone!

    Don't get me wrong, I can do 95% of what a Trane tech can do, however I do work with multiple control lines, and don't have time to devote to only one to know everything about it, and all "bugs" associated with it. If they want to make someone a Trane supplier, then open up all information to them so they can effectively service their customers.

  8. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by zarembad View Post
    We were offered this distinction, without having to drop all other lines, simply by buying enough equipment. The problem is, even with them stating this, they will only supply you enough training to make you dangerous!! So you end up putting in the controls, servicing them(to an extent), and if the fix is something factory related, or extremely complicated, Trane tells you their techs have to fix it as a sub to you. Well what do you think the customer thinks when you put in controls, and then have to have Trane come in and fix them?? They start thinking, "If I have to call Trane anyway, why don't I hire them to service my equipment?" Then Trane Service swoops in, and "poof" your account is gone!

    Don't get me wrong, I can do 95% of what a Trane tech can do, however I do work with multiple control lines, and don't have time to devote to only one to know everything about it, and all "bugs" associated with it. If they want to make someone a Trane supplier, then open up all information to them so they can effectively service their customers.
    -Amen

    Again we have full access. I believe the training has always gone through the local office, but they have not denied us yet. I don't know of any class our techs have not taken in White Bear. Its been great - and with their support I believe we have represented their product well. We try to be strict on the proper ways of doing things per the knowledge they have giving us. Its installed, wired, programmed, and commissioned by their standards. And we have very few problems with it.

    I don't understand how they can expect a contractor to install and service a product and not full support. Again I feel for your problems and say it must a local issue.

    We have been allowed to have secondary lines to use in areas where are having trouble being competitive. We tried for years not to use anything else and just couldn't wait any longer. When we explained they situation and asked for their thoughts for a solution, it was decided we could use another line. The decission actually game from a corporate rep that was in town. I don't remember his name, but he seem'd like a good guy. And we also sell lots of mechanical equipment for our area, which may help us.

    Good Luck.

    sysint - didn't mean to high jack your thread. I'm been waiting along time for Trane plugins and can't wait to try them out. I'm glad you posted this - I probably never would have found them. Hopefully this is positive sign of good things to come from Trane.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by jslimjeff View Post
    I'v worked for sevreal controls manf. JCI, TAC, ANdover and Trane. Yes it is true Trane does not give out their software to just any swingn dick. That is a great thing, it prevents hacks who think they know how to set up a control system from doing it unless they goto a class. Trane will alow any HVAC controctor to goto the class and purchase service software. Yes they will not let you engineer the job and sell it yourself , in my opinion that keeps the quality of jobs up.

    I knwo I will get blasted for this, But I worked for some of those contractors that thought they could do it all and I have seen the aftermath. the other control Manf are the same TAC you have to be a partner to get the software and so forth on the others.

    The LNS is no big deal, because if you know how to use LON and read XIF and Lonmaker, you can do anything the XIF has in it.

    Swinging dick? Mine swings far and wide. I didn't now you needed a class to install controls. Although I would like my company to send me to school. I have accomplished to install systems without any hitches. Now if your talking about the systems app. engineers or whatever title you want to give them well they can geek it out and blame it all on the install...

    Trane wants $3000 for Rover. Yeah, I'll swing my di** and knock 'em out.

    Know Trane Know Pain, No Trane, No Pain.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    250
    I'll have to agree with smokies, that the problem that some of you guys are having is on a local level and not a corporate one. If you are a Trane applied systems contractor, then you have access to any training/literature that you want.
    $3,000 for rover is not from "Trane", that price either came from a salesman that hit the multiply button, or the parts dept. that put a nice markup on it. Price should be half that IMHO, again depends on location.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,990
    Its 15K per year. They give you 3 training classes for "Free". You still have to buy the software etc and buy $250K worth of controls from your local rep.
    Quote Originally Posted by smokies View Post
    Not sure the sign up fee but I know its not 40K. Maybe it's different in other areas, not sure.
    Thanks
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    128

    Engineering a controls job

    Quote Originally Posted by smokies View Post
    I work for a private mechanical contractor who has been an ICS Contractor with Trane for 10+ years. We have full access to the summit line, tech support, training, software, and tech website. We have more fully factory trained technicians than our local trane office. Not sure the sign up fee but I know its not 40K. Maybe it's different in other areas, not sure. The goal for selling is standard - we also rep other lines and they have the same goal for us.

    There's no doubt the Summit is out dated and needs to be updated. Hopefully somethings coming done the pike soon. Its getting harder and harder to defend.

    I hear alot of bad things about Trane, but all my experiences have been positive. Our rep is great, classes are good, lots of resources. It maybe the fact that we sell alot of mechanical equipment - not sure.

    Thanks
    We are Trane controls Partner also. After three monitored jobs you can engineer and install as many as you want. We also represent three other control software flavors with no issues from Trane.
    Only drawback is no bidding on plan spec jobs. But I understand why from a legal stand point, no unfair job pricing due to a lower controls bid by a controls partner.
    Training is great, support direct from St. Paul , and we can compete with the local Trane rep on design build or retro-fit.
    A company must qualify by size, support of the product, and $ to be a partner. Trane customers do benefit from this process.

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