We sell tons of mechanical equipment, and they still won't let us have the training. The problem is that Trane is a supplier and a Contractor. They need to be one or the other. They are competing directly with the people they supply equipment to!! We put in their equipment, then they compete for the service, and don't allow us to take the controls classes unless we sell X amount of their controls. Then we put them in, and they come along and compete for the control service. What do you think that does for the business relationship. If you are going to be a manufacturer, then be one! Sell your equipment to the Contractors, and let the contractors service them.
Smokies, maybe the numbers are different in other areas but these are the numbers we were told. I dont have access to the numbers but I would guess that we buy a million $ + of Trane equipment a year. We are 'Trane Contracting Partners'.
A little while back I wanted to go to the regional Comm 5 training that was being held all over the country. A two day class. It was denied by the local office unless we signed a contract agreeing to the figures that I gave. We're not talking Summit or anything more meaningful in Trane controls.
Do I understand you right, 250k is a 'standard' sales quota? Who else do you rep? We talked to a lot of people and everyone was under 100k. Most by half.
Zarembad, I agree with you 100%. They should not be competing against the local contractors (their customers) for service. They need service people to do factory start-ups and warranty work but they should not be competing in controls and maintenance. If we have a warranty issue and call the local branch they tell us they are too busy and cant get to it for a few weeks. We should do the repair and submit for it. Of course they will never reimburse what it cost you. The reason the service guys are too busy is because they are out taking the contractors work away.
Zarembad and Dapper -
I'm glad I'm not dealing with the samething you guys are. Sounds like a local issue. I don't think corporate Trane cares which contractors go to the classes. Looks like your local reps or someone at the office is keeping you back. We won't rep a line we don't have full factory training and support. If local Trane tells you it a corporate issue, their full of it.
Our goal is nowhere close to the $250K - that doesn't seem realistic for a goal as a private contractor. Its close to the lower amount. In todays plan and spec market I don't see anyone hittin $250K with Trane controls. Its hard enough to be competitive against Delta,Alerton,Circon, Invensys (TAC), etc.
Well good luck guys - I would have a talk with local Trane and if they aren't willing to work with you then move on. If your mechanical contractors, have a sit down with another manufacturer. Its unrealistic to be expected to learn as you go.
so will anything ever be done about it? competing with your own customers for business and employees does not make sense to any business minded person. i believe that the problem is that the company is not structured as "one" company, but as several companies with "one" name. It is up to the private contractors and trade organizations to demand change from the manufacturers. The manufacturers are owned by business people. If you want change, there's only one way to get it, and that is to hit them in the pocket (just like they are doing to the private companies).
Originally Posted by dapper
I'm fine with the plugins. It's a start. I do think they would only offer them if they lost business or there was a business opportunity. (Army Corps?)
Anyway, going elsewhere usually does it. Personally, I think more contractors need to get savvy with alternate construction methods to minimize impact from these large manufacturers.
Awhile back we were looking at being a dealer for Trane Controls, and the standard agreement that we were pointed to on the Trane website specifically stated that we would not sell, service, or support any other controls line but Tranes. How did you work around this clause?
Originally Posted by smokies
We were offered this distinction, without having to drop all other lines, simply by buying enough equipment. The problem is, even with them stating this, they will only supply you enough training to make you dangerous!! So you end up putting in the controls, servicing them(to an extent), and if the fix is something factory related, or extremely complicated, Trane tells you their techs have to fix it as a sub to you. Well what do you think the customer thinks when you put in controls, and then have to have Trane come in and fix them?? They start thinking, "If I have to call Trane anyway, why don't I hire them to service my equipment?" Then Trane Service swoops in, and "poof" your account is gone!
Originally Posted by Tarakian
Don't get me wrong, I can do 95% of what a Trane tech can do, however I do work with multiple control lines, and don't have time to devote to only one to know everything about it, and all "bugs" associated with it. If they want to make someone a Trane supplier, then open up all information to them so they can effectively service their customers.
Originally Posted by zarembad
Again we have full access. I believe the training has always gone through the local office, but they have not denied us yet. I don't know of any class our techs have not taken in White Bear. Its been great - and with their support I believe we have represented their product well. We try to be strict on the proper ways of doing things per the knowledge they have giving us. Its installed, wired, programmed, and commissioned by their standards. And we have very few problems with it.
I don't understand how they can expect a contractor to install and service a product and not full support. Again I feel for your problems and say it must a local issue.
We have been allowed to have secondary lines to use in areas where are having trouble being competitive. We tried for years not to use anything else and just couldn't wait any longer. When we explained they situation and asked for their thoughts for a solution, it was decided we could use another line. The decission actually game from a corporate rep that was in town. I don't remember his name, but he seem'd like a good guy. And we also sell lots of mechanical equipment for our area, which may help us.
sysint - didn't mean to high jack your thread. I'm been waiting along time for Trane plugins and can't wait to try them out. I'm glad you posted this - I probably never would have found them. Hopefully this is positive sign of good things to come from Trane.
Originally Posted by jslimjeff
Swinging dick? Mine swings far and wide. I didn't now you needed a class to install controls. Although I would like my company to send me to school. I have accomplished to install systems without any hitches. Now if your talking about the systems app. engineers or whatever title you want to give them well they can geek it out and blame it all on the install...
Trane wants $3000 for Rover. Yeah, I'll swing my di** and knock 'em out.
Know Trane Know Pain, No Trane, No Pain.
I'll have to agree with smokies, that the problem that some of you guys are having is on a local level and not a corporate one. If you are a Trane applied systems contractor, then you have access to any training/literature that you want.
$3,000 for rover is not from "Trane", that price either came from a salesman that hit the multiply button, or the parts dept. that put a nice markup on it. Price should be half that IMHO, again depends on location.
Its 15K per year. They give you 3 training classes for "Free". You still have to buy the software etc and buy $250K worth of controls from your local rep.
Originally Posted by smokies
To much work with too little time!!!!
Engineering a controls job
We are Trane controls Partner also. After three monitored jobs you can engineer and install as many as you want. We also represent three other control software flavors with no issues from Trane.
Originally Posted by smokies
Only drawback is no bidding on plan spec jobs. But I understand why from a legal stand point, no unfair job pricing due to a lower controls bid by a controls partner.
Training is great, support direct from St. Paul , and we can compete with the local Trane rep on design build or retro-fit.
A company must qualify by size, support of the product, and $ to be a partner. Trane customers do benefit from this process.