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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2

    silfoss vs stay-brite

    I've been installing residential equipment for 25 years and have used stay brite on service valves, txv's, driers, etc. with very good luck. Everyone tells me on 410 systems you cannot use stay brite, must braze. I have yet to find a manufacturer, dealer or tech that can explain why. The strenth of SB will handle the higher pressures.
    Any insight?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    2,919
    I used Stay Brite #8 when I installed the R410a heat pump at my house with no problems. Most techs cannot soft solder well and do not know the advantages of Stay Brite. The last time I spoke to a rep of the Harris company (they make soldering and brazing alloys) he told me if he could carry just one alloy, it would be Stay Brite #8, as it is the best all around alloy they make.
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    13
    You guys use soft solder to sweat equipment in.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,837

    Braze vs. Solder

    Years ago we used StayBrite for our low side connections but in Massachusetts now it's a code requirement to braze all connections both indoors and out, residential and commercial. I don't know the tensil strength of StayBrite #8 but even 50/50 lead/tin solder have pretty high numbers. However, the actual burst pressures of an R-410A system can also be very high. R-410A operates in the 500+ psig range, which means the test pressure of the vessels must be at least 1,000 psig. The burst pressure should be double that or 2,000 psig. Calculating the joining surface area of a 7/8-inch suction line as 1.531 inches, the joint would be subjected to 3,061 pounds of force under extreme conditioins, such as in a fire. Maybe that's why they want brazing, eh?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    As long as manufacturers instructions continue to call for brazed connections, and Stay Bright continues to require acid flux, I'll stick to 15% silver phos/copper brazing alloy for copper to copper refrigerant connections.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Slacking off right now
    Posts
    7,546
    I think you are taking a risk using stay brite

    I'll stick to silfoss
    you know rev valves tx valves service valves sight glassess dryers solonid valves etc can take allot more heat than you might otherwise think
    www.vetopropac.com - The best tool bags on the market - The offical tool bag of choice by techs everywhere

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    665
    My issue with stay-brite it the stress and vibration. I've seen many jobs leak after 5-8 years.
    keep your ice cold and flame hot

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2
    Thanks for the reply guys. Stay Brite has a tensile strength of 14,000 psi copper to copper, 10,500 psi vibration resistant. #8 probably has better numbers. I've seen no more leaks with soft solder than I have with brazing, even 5 to 10 years later. Like anything, if it is done right, you should not have a problem. Also, heating to 430 degrees instead of 1200 doesn't distort or weaken the metal.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    74

    check w/ manufacturers

    its an issue of the flux, not the strength of Stay Brite. No flux on 410a systems - supposedly sludges up the system's oil.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    kentucky
    Posts
    7

    Straybrite #8

    Sometimes I think people knock the staybrite#8 for 2 reasons. 1. They don't know how to correctly use it and 2. They don't want to take the time to clean and flux when they can pick up a brazing rod.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    4,975
    Agreed matt, which is why I braze. Muahahaha.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    1,260
    Not to mention that 15% SF is specified in ALL the contract documents I have ever seen for decades in new non-resi construction. I have always encouraged my competitors to short-cut their work as it provides me with more opportunities

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    465
    Brazing is specified on all work I do as well.Must braze and purge with nitrogen.

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