Page 105 of 105 FirstFirst ... 555959899100101102103104105
Results 1,353 to 1,364 of 1364
  1. #1353
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Likes
    I think most of the disagreement about the free market is what my concept is of a free market. I think of a free market as a market run by private companies or individuals based on supply & demand. That is what we have in the U.S. health care market. By the strict sense of the phrase you could say that is not a free market since the government has imposed laws & regulations on the health care system. If you have a strictly free market there would be no way to stop monopolies & there would be no controls whatsoever over any essential services because the strict phrase does not allow for any government intervention. So in a capitalistic system we have a quasi-free market based on supply & demand but also with some government regulations. So you can technically say that the HVAC business is not a free market because we have to be licensed, get permits & buy refrigerant that is regulated by the EPA. There is no question that those things effect what the consumer pays but since we are in a supply & demand business I still consider it a free market. It may not be in the strict sense of the phrase but i think most would agree the HVAC business is part of the free market system. So just because the doctors, hospitals etc.. have more government stuff to deal with, they still make their decisions & set their prices however they feel the market will allow them. They are no less a free market system than the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, they just choose to run their businesses differently so they have more government regulations to deal with. I'm sure all those doctors at the surgery Center have to have their approved government licenses & the Center itself has to deal with some government licensing & regulations but just a lot less than a typical hospital. They are both working in a supply & demand system but neither are strictly free market if we are being completely technical. Both have government involvement, just one has more than the other.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  2. #1354
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I think most of the disagreement about the free market is what my concept is of a free market. I think of a free market as a market run by private companies or individuals based on supply & demand. That is what we have in the U.S. health care market. By the strict sense of the phrase you could say that is not a free market since the government has imposed laws & regulations on the health care system. If you have a strictly free market there would be no way to stop monopolies & there would be no controls whatsoever over any essential services because the strict phrase does not allow for any government intervention. So in a capitalistic system we have a quasi-free market based on supply & demand but also with some government regulations. So you can technically say that the HVAC business is not a free market because we have to be licensed, get permits & buy refrigerant that is regulated by the EPA. There is no question that those things effect what the consumer pays but since we are in a supply & demand business I still consider it a free market. It may not be in the strict sense of the phrase but i think most would agree the HVAC business is part of the free market system. So just because the doctors, hospitals etc.. have more government stuff to deal with, they still make their decisions & set their prices however they feel the market will allow them. They are no less a free market system than the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, they just choose to run their businesses differently so they have more government regulations to deal with. I'm sure all those doctors at the surgery Center have to have their approved government licenses & the Center itself has to deal with some government licensing & regulations but just a lot less than a typical hospital. They are both working in a supply & demand system but neither are strictly free market if we are being completely technical. Both have government involvement, just one has more than the other.
    I can agree to what you are getting at. The problem is government has set forth rules and regulations the effect everyone. They can't set a darn budget or agree on anything. Yet somehow they got or are gonna get this right. Naw, they stepped in and raised costs for everyone. I was paying $500 a month prior now $1100. I tore my acl and meniscus. The surgery bill was $100. My daughter broke her arm requiring surgury. My bill was $4000.
    Due tell where I'm not getting bent over and made to ask for more. Raw doggin it at that.

    The 2nd is there to protect the 1st. DTOM

  3. #1355
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,623
    Post Likes
    Good friend of mine had a heart attack at 30 years old , couple years later was forced to sign up for Eboma care and they told him 14,000 a month

    They didn't lie about one thing , they cant deny you if you have prior records ....

    Nope , they just screw you up the starfish

  4. #1356
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by zamoramax View Post
    I can agree to what you are getting at. The problem is government has set forth rules and regulations the effect everyone. They can't set a darn budget or agree on anything. Yet somehow they got or are gonna get this right. Naw, they stepped in and raised costs for everyone. I was paying $500 a month prior now $1100. I tore my acl and meniscus. The surgery bill was $100. My daughter broke her arm requiring surgury. My bill was $4000.
    Due tell where I'm not getting bent over and made to ask for more. Raw doggin it at that.

    The 2nd is there to protect the 1st. DTOM
    I can't blame you for being concerned about the government screwing things up worse because the fact is they usually do. I share the same concerns however they do have a track record with Medicare. Medicare is not perfect but most people on it are very happy with it. The biggest flaw in Medicare is the 20% they don't pay that lets private insurance in through the back door. The reason the ACA doesn't work too well is because it relies on private insurance 100%. Let's face it, Obamacre was one of the the biggest lies ever fed to the American people. Who at the top knew it was a lie & who were just ignorant about it, I don't know but it was only logical that if the insurance companies had to insure sick people at the same rate as healthy people then the rates across the board had to go up. If the insurance companies were allowed to create new networks & pay doctors & hospitals less then it was only logical that you may not be able to "keep your doctor" because they may not want to join the network. I can't blame anyone for not trusting the government.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  5. Likes zamoramax liked this post
  6. #1357
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Snapperhead View Post
    Good friend of mine had a heart attack at 30 years old , couple years later was forced to sign up for Eboma care and they told him 14,000 a month

    They didn't lie about one thing , they cant deny you if you have prior records ....

    Nope , they just screw you up the starfish
    I think you've got your decimal points mixed up because your friend is probably one of the few who benefited from Obamacare.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  7. #1358
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,623
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I think you've got your decimal points mixed up because your friend is probably one of the few who benefited from Obamacare.
    Even if Eboma Gov help paid 80 percent of that , do the math of his monthly

  8. #1359
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Snapperhead View Post
    Even if Eboma Gov help paid 80 percent of that , do the math of his monthly
    Did you mean 14,000 a year because at least that would be feasible instead of 14,000 a month? Then we're talking more like 1,200 a month. I know the price of plans on the marketplace in SC & the only way a single person could pay close to 1,200 a month is if he was over 60, picked the most expensive plan available & had high enough income that he didn't get any subsidy at all. They can be higher in some states but not by that much. You've either been misinformed or you're mistaken if you think there's a plan on the market place that costs $14,000 for one person a month, subsidy or not. I don't know the prices in every state but if can you prove me wrong in any state I'll admit to you i was wrong & apologize for doubting you.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  9. #1360
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    Did you mean 14,000 a year because at least that would be feasible instead of 14,000 a month? Then we're talking more like 1,200 a month. I know the price of plans on the marketplace in SC & the only way a single person could pay close to 1,200 a month is if he was over 60, picked the most expensive plan available & had high enough income that he didn't get any subsidy at all. They can be higher in some states but not by that much. You've either been misinformed or you're mistaken if you think there's a plan on the market place that costs $14,000 for one person a month, subsidy or not. I don't know the prices in every state but if can you prove me wrong in any state I'll admit to you i was wrong & apologize for doubting you.
    Side note. In Ca, you have to make less than 48k a year as a family to get assistance. You can't make rent on 48k/yr. So I ask who is qualified for assistance? No attack intended, sincere question.

    The 2nd is there to protect the 1st. DTOM

  10. #1361
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by zamoramax View Post
    Side note. In Ca, you have to make less than 48k a year as a family to get assistance. You can't make rent on 48k/yr. So I ask who is qualified for assistance? No attack intended, sincere question.

    The 2nd is there to protect the 1st. DTOM
    Good question,
    I guess they the guys who wrote the plan didn't think about that either. Maybe they were more concerned about people being able to get coverage than people being able to afford coverage. But at least it did help some people.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

  11. #1362
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    Good question,
    I guess they the guys who wrote the plan didn't think about that either. Maybe they were more concerned about people being able to get coverage than people being able to afford coverage. But at least it did help some people.
    I can agree it did help some people. At the cost of everyone else. What happens to me and my kin is of no one else's concern. The same goes the other way. If we are to lazy to make our way in life let us drown.
    Don't get me wrong. There are people who just need a hand up, and there is plenty of programs out to help people. The problem is the better majority of people who benefit from this are looking for a hand out. Difference is. One person fell on hard times and want to better themself. The other just wants everything in life for free. And oh boy have I meet several hundreds maybe thousands of people like that(I'm sure we all have).

    The 2nd is there to protect the 1st. DTOM

  12. #1363
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    napping on the couch
    Posts
    10,126
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    Good question,
    I guess they the guys who wrote the plan didn't think about that either. Maybe they were more concerned about people being able to get coverage than people being able to afford coverage. But at least it did help some people.
    It hurt almost everyone and helped a handful.

  13. Likes zamoramax liked this post
  14. #1364
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,130
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian8383 View Post
    It hurt almost everyone and helped a handful.
    At least we can agree on something. You know I'm all for the idea of every American having health coverage but Obamacare should be called Obomination because of how poor the plan was for the whole country. All they did was steal the idea from Romneycare & figured out how to make it worse for more people.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.

Page 105 of 105 FirstFirst ... 555959899100101102103104105

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor MagazineThe place where Electrical professionals meet.