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  1. #1

    Trane Heat Pump Market Problem

    The TXV valve on my XL16i went out and had to be replaced 10 months after install.

    I checked around and found that others had similar experiences including home owners with XL14i duel fuel systems.

    Does anyone know of a market problem whith TXV valves on Trane heat pumps?

    Is it related to the equipment or the install?

    The cases I know of had the duel fuel contolled by a fossil fuel kit. Does that have anything to do with it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,176
    We have changed a couple including a brand new DOA unit. Being on dual fuel has nothing to do with it. Cheap consumers hammering dealers who hammer suppliers who hammer manufacturers for cheaper equipment is the blame. And it will get worse.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    I have had 2 fail on systems I installed less than 1 year ago. Both were R-410a heat pumps, and I know for a fact that there was heat paste and a wet rag used to protect the sensing bulb during installation. The units also performed as they should for the remainder of the cooling season last year, and checked out fine at the beginning in the heating season, so I know it wasn't an installation issue.
    I found both of them during cooling checks, the owners hadn't noticed a problem yet. I'm wondering if we will have more once it gets hot and people notice the system not cooling properly.

    I'm starting to see more Danfoss expansion valves in Trane equipment, hopefully they will fully switch over to using them...
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,176
    Mark, yours were indoor? We've seen issues outdoor, none indoor.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Mark, yours were indoor? We've seen issues outdoor, none indoor.
    Mine were indoor.
    I have had one total outdoor TXV bad on a Trane R-410a heat pump. I found it in October on a 5 year old XL13i.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    south carolina
    Posts
    176
    was the copper changed when you switched to r410 if not that may be your problem it has to be changed or atleast flushed before installing

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camel City, NC
    Posts
    6,233

    A Tech

    I spoke with said the O-rings on the pushrods were swelling up causing the problem. Their a Trane dealer and equip. was 410a. Food for thought.
    Be safe not fast. body parts don't grow back

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sulphur La.
    Posts
    181
    I have changed 7 valves in Lennox air handlers in the last 10 months.All new installs.These are Parker valves with chatlef fittings so no heat was used to install them.I even disasembled a few,but found no foreign material stopping them up.Some of the units have been in service over a year and all are r410a.I even have a Trane vs air handler waiting on a new valve for monday.

  9. #9
    Parker and Sporlan have a near monopoly on the manufacture of TXV's. The dozens of HVAC manufacturers simply pick one over the other. There is no reason why one brand of HVAC equipment would be more prone to TXV failures than another brand.

    I heard some time ago that Parker and Sporlan examined thousands of "bad" TXV's that were returned under warranty. In 75% of the cases, the failure was due to improper installation techniques that are beyond the control of either the TXV manufacturer or the HVAC equipment itself. I cannot stress enough the importance of flushing the lines (when changing refrigerant), purging the lines with nitrogen, and then pulling a deep vacuum. If people would do this, the vast majority of TXV's failures would not occur.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by Cody_Virginia View Post
    Parker and Sporlan have a near monopoly on the manufacture of TXV's.
    Danfoss valves are starting to pop up in some equipment, IMO a superior product over what Sporlan and Parker are putting out these days.
    The Dutch seem to be better at putting them together than the Chinese or Mexicans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody_Virginia View Post
    I cannot stress enough the importance of flushing the lines (when changing refrigerant), purging the lines with nitrogen, and then pulling a deep vacuum. If people would do this, the vast majority of TXV's failures would not occur.
    The 2 TXVs I changed in air handlers in the last 2 weeks were in systems with new refrigerant lines that were purged with N2 while brazing and evacuated to less than 200 microns. The bulbs were protected with a wet rag wrapped around the line inside the air handler and heat blocking past on the copper stub outside the air handler.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  11. #11

    Cody is correct

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody_Virginia View Post
    Parker and Sporlan have a near monopoly on the manufacture of TXV's. The dozens of HVAC manufacturers simply pick one over the other. There is no reason why one brand of HVAC equipment would be more prone to TXV failures than another brand.

    I heard some time ago that Parker and Sporlan examined thousands of "bad" TXV's that were returned under warranty. In 75% of the cases, the failure was due to improper installation techniques that are beyond the control of either the TXV manufacturer or the HVAC equipment itself. I cannot stress enough the importance of flushing the lines (when changing refrigerant), purging the lines with nitrogen, and then pulling a deep vacuum. If people would do this, the vast majority of TXV's failures would not occur.
    I believe the study by Parker and Sporlan. OEM's simply can not afford the warranty costs of bad supplier parts. Believe me, they would take drastic measures to guarantee the quality of a reacuring component failure.

    On the other hand, the OEM's do not have control over the installer. Unfortunately there is no requirement for the individual that is sent to your home to install the equipment. The contractor might have been certified by what ever means, NATE , comfort specialist, bla bla bla. However they do not necessarily send certified technicians to perform the install. In my case I made the mistake of trusting Home Depot to choose a trustworthy contractor. In reality, I think the contractor became overwhelmed with purchase orders and simply had to fill head count. The technicians that installed my system were clearly not qualified.

    I don't know if this is possible but.... It would be nice if the OEMs were able to hold installers to a certian qulification. For example not just any welder can work on a boiler.

    What do you think?

    Thanks everyone for you comments. It's great learning.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camel City, NC
    Posts
    6,233

    lost charge and by-flow

    Seen more PE failures since ultra sound has been used to seal them. The more that by-flow TXV's have been used in HP's instead of by-pass around with a check valve we seem to have more problems/failures too.
    Be safe not fast. body parts don't grow back

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,987
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Danfoss valves are starting to pop up in some equipment, IMO a superior product over what Sporlan and Parker are putting out these days.
    The Dutch seem to be better at putting them together than the Chinese or Mexicans...
    Danfoss residential TEVs made for the U.S. are made in Mexico.

    All Sporlan TEVs are made in Missouri.

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