Professional Member
The evaporator coil? The fan motor and cage will not be cleaned unless a technician feels it has lost capacity to move air and then follows that assumption by taking the proper information from recording data through specialized equipment.Originally Posted by chandleraz_guy
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Your coils can have dirt in teh fins that you can't see.
A light checmical cleaning during an anual service check will keep it at its best efficiency.
Many systems work for years without any service other then air filter changes.
They slowly lose their efficiecy, and the owner doesn't realize that they are paying higher heating and cooling bills because of it.
Hey, its a York, of course its still working.
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Priceless
The most important reason for yearly maintainance is. If you do have a breakdown in the middle of summer at 100 degrees You may get your contractor there in few days,instead of having to thumb through the yellow pages and settle for an unknown to you company.
Usually by July I can only take care of the existing residential and commercial customers that I have. And feel no obligation to others.
Professional Member*
It just amazes me how much HO's know about HVAC, so much more than us folks that do it full time for decades... WOW, I wish I was as wise and smart as they are...
But then, those that laugh last... well, we all know the way that goes.
I will stand on the theory of my statement: A wise person will shut up and listen, a know it all will end up with a handful of stuff not socially acceptable to discuss.
Again, best of luck to you sir, you probably will need it.
GA-HVAC-Tech
Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!
GA's basic rules of home heating and AC upgrades:
*Installation is more important than the brand of equipment
*The duct system keeps the house comfortable; the equipment only heats and cools (and dehumidifies)
*The value of comfort, over the long term; leave economic choices behind!
Choose your contractor wisely!
Regular Guest
As for pm, its true some people dont have their equipment serviced at it functions ok or at least seems too. But i have seen some fairly new equipment fail because of neglect. As far as service contracts, depending on the company providing the service, can make a big difference. what all do they do on regular pm. The company i work with has around 7000 homes on service contract. one system pm usually takes about 2 hours. Also s.a.customers do not pay for a service call if their unit goes down. They do have to pay for parts. Also they are gauranteed to have someone there the same day, hot or cold 24/7. They get discounted parts and discounts on new equipment. AND if they buy a unit from us ,we look after it for 5 years top to bottom and yes this includes twice a year maintanence and that is at no extra cost. so it may be very beneficial to have a service contract.
Regular Guest
ga-hvac-tech,
Again...SIR, you need to pay attention to what I wrote before you preach
to folks.
Why is that that no one here will provide specifics as to EXACTLY what is
done for both a/c and furance yearly maintenance.
One contractor stated to me that I dont need maintenance for the first 5
years!
Regular Guest
Interesting thread... Some pretty caustic replies too! And some that are I think pretty honest.
I am one that has been very lax in "preventive maintenance" on my HVAC. In the 15 years I've been in this house, I've had folks out maybe 5 times total. However with this new system, I'm required under the terms of my contract to have them out once a year. That's not a horrible expense in exchange for a 10 yr. labor warranty, I s'pose.
The one that that is of value is having them clean out the condensate line. I had that sucker plug once, thanks to the mud wasps building a nice nest in the line. We figured out the problem when the ceiling caved in with about a ton of sopping cellulose along with the drywall! The substandard drip pan was part of the problem also...
My take on what I've read is that they may not do too much in this PM other than checking stuff, which may or may not prevent problems. It seems likely from what I've read in this thread that this isn't a critical service.
Professional Member
Your warranty of course will be determined by the manufacturer but, on many units satisfactory proof of yearly service by a dealer may be required as a condition to warranty coverage.
In ICP limited warranty certificate it states this:
As a condition to warranty coverage, the unit must receive yearly maintenance, as described in the owner's manual, by a dealer. Satisfactory proof of yearly service by a dealer may be required. In another paragraph it states: In establishing that the required yearly service has occurred, you must furnish proof of yearly service by a qualified service technician.
That certainly seems clear enough for this equipment.
Now, there is your answer as to what is performed during yearly maintenance as well--described in owner's manual.
The first thing you may want to do is check with your installing company about warranty issues and what they recommend for your new system.
Professional Member*
If you do get the PM I feel sorry for the tech that has to go to your house and deal with you.
Regular Guest
rogerk -If you do get the PM I feel sorry for the tech that has to go to your house and deal with you.
Comments like yours do nothing other than foster an "us against them" mentality. Sadly, your's isn't the first comment this type that I've seen on this board.
Professional Member*
You want it broken down? Well, like gas mileage, yours will vary by how a contractor defines a preventive maintenance check. Me, if I were in contracting, would first sell and properly install your equipment and do a proper start-up/commissioning of the system to lay down a baseline of "day-one" performance. This would include measuring airflow, pressure drops across cooling coil, total external static pressure - TESP - (compared to OEM's acceptable range) superheat, subcooling, compressor running amp draw, etc. Granted, this data will vary somewhat under various operating loads, but it has an expected range and can be tracked. A capacity check would be performed to ensure the equipment is capable of delivering the purchased and designed btu's. If I designed the ductwork I would want to verify proper air delivery and introduction to each room, and proper return. Even if I didn't I'd want to run that check and recommened corrections, if warranted.
Each yearly checkup these points would be rechecked to verify if performance has deteriorated to where corrective action would be recommended. It would also include checking electrical components such as run and start capacitors, contactor points, tightening all wiring connections, checking condenser fan motor for shaft play, checking indoor blower motor for shaft play and dirt build-up, back-flushing condenser coil (they are NOT to be washed with the direction of airflow), splitting the coil if it's a double row and I see cottonwood trees within five miles, visual inspection for refrigerant leaks and maybe point leak detector at spots prone to develop leaks over time, check to ensure cap tubes inside condenser aren't rubbing together which can create a leak, recheck pressure drop over evap and compare it to baseline data, recommend an evap coil cleaning if warranted by visual and pressure drop data, same would apply for blower wheel blades, also an airflow killer if allowed to accumulate dirt. Verify proper operation of controls. Check condenser fan blade to see if it's going out of balance (which can kill motor bearings), check blower wheel in air handler for same reason. Recheck TESP.
Sure, you could blow all that off and just do your regular filter changing and forward flushing of your outdoor coil. But you won't have any tracking of performance and you won't have any trained set of eyes that could spot trouble before that 105 degree day hits.
Psychrometrics: the very foundation of HVAC. A comfort troubleshooter's best friend.
Professional Member
And I say to you....
"SIR, you need to pay attention to what I wrote before you preach
to folks. "
Look above. It is explained quiet well.
Professional Member *
Why do you guys waste your time?
We only want to do it, if we can do it right.
Regular Guest
Well, this thread IS useful to homeowners like me that are basically cheap bastids (therefore inclined to maybe skimp on the PMs). Based on this thread, I've decided it probably IS better longterm to bite the bullet and pay the cost of a once-a-year checkup.Why do you guys waste your time?
As per usual, ShopHound's post detailing the steps he'd take in checking out a system are very helpful. I think I'll print out the text and ask which of these my tech does or doesn't do and why...
Regular Guest
Im afraid some contractors here are VERY sensitive and VERY defensive. You
guys really need to pay attention to what im saying! I NEVER stated that I
would NOT perform PM on my system!
Ive stated that I will do PM after the first year and than every other year
there after. STOP exaggeratining guys. You make it sound like I will TOTALLY
neglect my HVAC and sit and let it rot!
And YES....I change the oil in my car every 3000 miles, get yearly physicals,
eye exams and dentists every six months. Chorlestrol checked every six
months.
My 1998 Toyota Corolla now has 178,000 miles and DOES NOT burn a
drop of oil!
How the heck can you explain getting 21 years out of my entry level cheap
YORK system with ZERO maint and repairs??
And its still running!
Professional Member*
The beauty of an open forum...the OP ain't the only one reading replies. You never know who you'll hit...or miss. Never hurts to put it out there for someone with the right angle who will benefit. I've learned lots from threads where I had no dog in the fight, because someone in the thread took time to explain their position.Why do you guys waste your time?
Psychrometrics: the very foundation of HVAC. A comfort troubleshooter's best friend.
Professional Member*
Nobody is suggesting you would, at least in my estimation. You'll have to excuse the apparent touchiness...you have people here passionate about their chosen trade who over time become a bit jaded toward what so often they encounter among homeowners...apathy or flippancy toward the most expensive operating system in their house.
My previous post was my attempt to delineate what all is involved with a good, annual maintenance check. It should be obvious from the extent of the content disclosed that every other year might miss a few things. Sure you can let 'er go and just do your homeowner obligations to it (change filter and wash outdoor coil) but it has already been raised here...had your 21 year old system received the care outlined above, would it have given you 21 years of the most optimum performance and efficiency possible for its design and configuration? Vs. acceptable but a bit on the spendy side performance and efficiency?
In the end it is your equipment and you have the right to maintain it as you choose. However, your words are being interpreted by many here as attempts to minimize the importance of the role an annual check plays toward optimum system performance and efficiency. Whether that is a correct interpretation or not is moot...all we can do is clarify our positions and move on.
Psychrometrics: the very foundation of HVAC. A comfort troubleshooter's best friend.
Professional Member
If the cost of the system you currently have only went up 1 dollar each month of each year because of inefficiencies. Let's take a look see.....
1st year $50 per month
2nd year $51 per month
3rd year $52 per month
4th year $53 per month
5th year $54 per month
6th year $55 per month
7trh year $56 per month
8th year $57 per month
9th year $58 per month
10th year $59 per month
11th year $60 per month
12th year $61 per month
13th year $62 per month
14th year $63 per month
15th year $64 per month
16th year $65 per month
17th year $66 per month
18th year $67 per month
19th year $68 per month
20th year $69 per month
21st year $70 per month
Thats a 40% increase in your monthly bill. Not to mention that energy prices rise also. Just something to think about. The point in going with a higher seer is to save money. If you don't properly service it and make sure it stays clean then what are you actually saving? Seems to me you have already made up your mind in which case why come on a forum of HVAC professionals and ask opinions. And your lucky with it "still running" that should be a testament to how good of a quality your brand that you have is. Because of the increase in cost to use energy you probably dont even realize how much your bills have gone up. Look at energy cost for your area over the last 21 years and figure out inflation into it and look at how much your original bills were and now adjust your current bills for inflation. The point is routine maintenance is so important to longevity. New systems have much tighter standards to be able to achieve the seer ratings they have and therefore that means you don't have as much room to play with things like the charge all things must be exact if you want your SEER out of your system. Have a tech take a gander at what seer your current system is running at I bet it's no where near what it's rated.
Regular Guest
Thanks Big Jon and Shophound!
Finally, some thoughtful, intelligent responses!
Professional Member
We are just trying to help....you asked everyone here tried to put it in laments terms. I guess you wanted it spelled out. Don't take some of the responses personally all these guys love their jobs or they wouldn't be taking the extra effort to be on forums like this. But you get different responses because people have different opinions and live in different places and lead different lives. Everyone here no matter how they answered were in fact trying to help you because they wouldn't have answered the thread otherwise. These guys get to see first hand what not doing maintenance does to a system....Just something to keep in mind.
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