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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA USA
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    19

    Hmm Replacing Split System: Rheem vs York thus far

    We are looking to replace our 22 year old York split system that has served us nearly flawlessly. As a result, we have been taking quotes on the York Affinity line. 13 SEER on the AC side and 80% AFUE on the gas furnace. We live in southeastern Virginia. We also took a quote from a contractor for a system with Rheem components. Those components being, on the heating side the Rheem Classic Series Super Quiet 80 and the Classic RAND series on the AC side.

    The heating system offered by Rheem is supposedly tested as being the quietest in the industry which is important to us, uses direct spark ignition, and in-shot burners. However, it is only a single-stage system. The York heating side is from their Affinity line (what's really in a name), is rated at an additional 5,000 BTU and is a two-stage system. Both systems come with a 20-year warranty on the heat exchanger. I have been told that the elderly might have a problem feeling warm enough when going from a lifetime of enjoying a one-stage system to a two-stage system. On the AC side, the Rheem contractor is proposing the Rheem Classic line with the Scroll compressor while the York contractors are offering their Affinity line.

    The pricing (total parts and labor) has been about the same for all quotes. Any thoughts or feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,886
    The Super Quiet 80 lives up to its name. Over the many years of 80% furnaces, there have been oodles of complaints about loud inducers and loud burners. Ironically Rheem's 80 was one of the loudest. Not anymore The RAND is a great A/C as well, quiet, well built...

    We've had NO complaints from anyone on comfort from a 2 stage furnace. We sell ours with a 2 stage stat. So if you want to go York or ask the Rheem dealer about 2 stage, I would expect no comfort issues. On the contrary, most feel more comfortable with the gentle heat in mild weather.

    Only other thought in your area is dual fuel where you have a heat pump outside the heats very cheaply in mild weather and the gas automatically takes over in cold weather. Really cuts the old heating bill.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA USA
    Posts
    19
    The Rheem contractor is asking 14% more for the total package if he supplies a two-stage system. Is Rheem worth the additional 14% over the York. I think I'll get quotes from additional Rheem contractors and also request an option price for a heat pump. Thanks for the feedback.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,886
    In the Affinity 13 SEER R22 line, the compressor is a recip up through 3 ton. Personally I think a high end unit should be scroll. Leave the recips for the builder models. But that's just 1 little old opinion. Otherwise, the Affinity is a nice unit. The R410a 13 SEER is all scroll.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    122
    As far as reliability goes on these Brands, I would put an edge on the Rheem unit. Why are you only getting prices on these brands? Lennox or Trane are much more reliable. If you plan on staying in the home for 5yrs or more you want to spend the extra money.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,821
    Quote Originally Posted by bell3156 View Post
    . Why are you only getting prices on these brands? Lennox or Trane are much more reliable. .
    And I am sure you have data to back up that statement?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,886
    Hmmmmmm

    RAND-JAZ: Copeland scroll, high pressure switch, low pressure switch, hard start kit. JEZ adds compressor cover and Comfort Alert diagnostics

    AC13: Copeland scroll, no pressure protection or start kit

    XR13: Mexican made recip in all but 3 & 5 ton, no compressor protection, has start kit on recips

    Gee, seems like Rheem is giving quite a value for the money! I'm with Mr. Bill, who says Trane & Lennox are more reliable?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,701
    As baldie almost implied, get the r410a version of the Afinity.
    If you go with York again.

    Get a 2 stage stat if you get a 2 stage furnace.

    If you decide to go with a duel fuel system, the Affinity heat pumps defrost board is also a duel fuel control, so no need to add one.


    The Rheem condensers are well thought out units, easy to service and durable.
    The furnaces use to be loud.
    But if baldie says their quite now, take his word for it. He's one of the least bias on this board.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,855
    Just my $0.02 worth here... And I might add up front that I am biased because I am a RUUD dealer (RUUD and Rheem are the same unit with different name badges).

    I have the UGPR furnace in my home, and install them regularly. The UGPR is a two stage 80% with an ECM (variable speed) motor. The comfort added with the options available with a VS furnace are well worth it IMO. And it is very quiet!!!!!!!!!!!

    There is one thing you need to be honest with yourself about: If you do not plan to stay in the house for 5 or more years, IMO get something economical; as you will not get the full value of the extra costs. But if you are there for the long haul, you will really enjoy the premium furnace.

    And while we are talking about the HVAC system: It is the most expensive, the most complicated, the most energy intensive (costs the most to run), and the most neglected appliance in the home. If you take the time to get a quality system, you will thank yourself for years to come!

    Most of the time with a quality installation, a VS furnace will yield close to 14 SEER from a 13 SEER A/C unit. And there is a dehumidification cycle that can be set up as an option to keep the air more comfortable. Ask your Rheem dealer about this (and if they do not know, get another dealer).

    I would vote for the Rheem, but then I am biased because I am a RUUD dealer.

    Having said this: The installation is worth a lot more than the equipment. Be SURE you get a contractor that is fussy about doing a quality install. Be sure they run a load calculation on your home to size the equipment correctly. And do not be surprised if they want to do some ductwork modification to improve airflow (almost every house I come across needs a little). One more thing I would suggest is a media filter system. It uses a 5" thick filter that traps more dirt while allowing the system to 'breathe' easier.

    If you do your homework, you will come out with a home that is a lot more comfortable and more energy efficient also. Best to you, and enjoy your new system when it is in.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA USA
    Posts
    19

    Hmm

    Wow! Aside from the potential for bias, what a wealth of good info this otherwise appears to be. I'm going to rule out the York and look at the Rheem, but also give Trane a look because this home is going to be kept in the family. Isn't it in the Trane commercial where the guy buys his wife a new Trane system for their wedding anniversary because "we're in it for the long haul"?

    It sounds like a two-stage or better yet a two-stage system with variable speed would provide greater comfort, while with a heat pump we would realize an even better savings on energy costs. Would a two-stage heating system and a heat pump defeat one another or compete in certain higher outdoor temperature ranges?
    Last edited by bout_dem_Gators; 05-06-2007 at 02:47 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
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    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by bell3156 View Post
    As far as reliability goes on these Brands, I would put an edge on the Rheem unit. Why are you only getting prices on these brands? Lennox or Trane are much more reliable. If you plan on staying in the home for 5yrs or more you want to spend the extra money.
    I'd definitely like to see any hard, cold data to support this...or at this point, even anecdotal evidence on a reasonable-sized sample.

    I'll admit that I've always spec'd Trane or Lennox, but have no problem with Rheem/Ruud units. The Rheem/Ruud units almost never feature the fancy gadgets and latest advancements, BUT, they build very solid, dependable units which are a great value.

    I have been told that the elderly might have a problem feeling warm enough when going from a lifetime of enjoying a one-stage system to a two-stage system.
    I doubt it... I've seen people (old and young) complain about the cooler air that heat pumps can produce, but I know some of the manufacturers have addressed this in their latest higher-end systems. I know Carrier does this, not sure about the others. Maybe if the elderly person insists on sitting directly in front of the vent and insists on holding their hand up to the vent (or worse, leaves a thermometer in front of it), the air might feel cooler on low, but I doubt it. Most of the 2-stage systems have variable-speed blowers which ramp down to match the lower output and deliver similar supply temperatures at high and low.

    Heat pumps are more efficient than fossil fuel furnaces, BUT, they are what their name suggests, pumps that move heat. The cooler it is outside, the less heat they're able to extract from outdoors and put into your home.

    Here's a sample HP performance chart. The 4 lines signify (from top to bottom), 5 ton, 4 ton, 3 ton, and 2 ton units. You'll notice that performance drops almost linearly in the majority of the heating range. I should note, that even 'though the 5 ton unit in this graph is only putting out about 32,000 BTUs when it's 18F outside, it's doing so at well over >100% efficiency. Why more than 100%? Because it's only moving heat from one place to another, not creating it. It takes far less energy to move something, in this case heat, than it does to create it from scratch.

    Once you get down to it being THAT cold outside, the heat loss of the house itself will be more than what the heat pump's capable of putting out, thus the need for auxiliary heat, whether it be heat strips (100% efficient, but also with the most expensive source -- electricity) or gas/oil furnace. Once you get below ~10F, then it's time to shut off the heat pump and let the furnace handle the load, there just isn't enough heat outside to make a difference.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,701
    Quote Originally Posted by tpa-fl View Post


    I doubt it... I've seen people (old and young) complain about the cooler air that heat pumps can produce,
    York has the hot heat pump feature.
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Connecticut
    Posts
    841
    Quote Originally Posted by bout_dem_Gators View Post
    Wow! Aside from the potential for bias, what a wealth of good info this otherwise appears to be. I'm going to rule out the York and look at the Rheem, but also give Trane a look because this home is going to be kept in the family. Isn't it in the Trane commercial where the guy buys his wife a new Trane system for their wedding anniversary because "we're in it for the long haul"?

    It sounds like a two-stage or better yet a two-stage system with variable speed would provide greater comfort, while with a heat pump we would realize an even better savings on energy costs. Would a two-stage heating system and a heat pump defeat one another or compete in certain higher outdoor temperature ranges?
    Why are you ruling out the York? Because someone on this site said Rheem is better? I personaly do not like Rheem units. I also sell York products and would recommend them over any other. If you buy a York unit before June 30 you can get 10 years parts and labor warrenty.http://www.yorkupg.com/homeowners/seasonal_promo.asp

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