I have been on both sides and feel the unions are the crooks. Most union techs I have worked with or been in contact with are under trained and are the highest paid hacks I have ever met!
I dont wish to join an arguement or start a new one, but just wanted to give my unbias opinon.
"Correct Installation is the Key"
.1 has killed more HX then Rush Limbaugh
What is your TESP?
In my area the opposite is true.
Oftentimes, that contract is up to interpretation, so when it leads to litigation unless you have ALOT of money for defense it doesn't always help you. If the union wants you to burn, you burn. If they want to buy hotels with your pension, they do it.
Originally Posted by Ammonianite
Why do you think that the union relies so heavily on underfunded liability?
I keep bringing it up but all you sheep don't understand what it is and why you should want 100% funding.
if they buy a hotel with the pension money,your pension credits per year should not change,if it does,then it is your fault for voting on such a contract..it would be good for them to buy hotels,and catering halls,which they do in my area,more income for the union.
Originally Posted by sysint
the rate i make is a significant amount more then any person i know who is not in the union,even guys who been in the field 20 or more years then me,
i have WAAAY better benefits,and i have a pension period..i have thousands of dollars a year go into my annuity.when i was nonunion my 401k was gettin killed,and guys i know were actually losing money,it doesnt even compare to my anuity.if this makes me a sheep..then baaahhhh!!!
can you please explain this underfunded liabilty issue you have to me?
the national pension fund people is the one who bought the hotel and yes it cost me and every one elso in the national pension fund. No we could not vote on wether or not to buy a hotel.
then how did it cost you money???
Originally Posted by freonrick
you still get the same credits per year,unless it is voted away,which would have to be in a contract
I dont have the figures on me but per year credit didnt change but the amount per year after the hotel flop changed the amount I get. for an example in 2004 I would get 100 per month for that year, because of the hotel failure I would now get 30 per month for that year. my pay in did not change. (these figures is only an example)
was this a country wide UA thing?
Originally Posted by freonrick
i thought the credit you get per year is what you get per month when you retire?
in other words,my package is close to 70 credits per year.which means i get 70 bucks per month for every year i was paying into the pension,so if i stay invested 30 years, i will get 2100 a month,is it different in your area?
I may be wrong, but I don't think we're in that fund.
Originally Posted by d_griff
I believe UANJ has it's own for local 9, 274, 322 and 476 B guys.
Last edited by bustawrench1; 05-31-2007 at 08:49 PM.
It Is What It Is
I have been on both sides and down here in Mississippi non-union is better; howeve, both union and non-union are good. I found the retirement here would bring me roughly 1700 a mth after 30 years. A401K plan can get on an average of 10% which after 30 is roughly 1.2M with me putting in 6% and my company matching with 3%. If I draw on that for 20 years after retirement I can draw double what the retirement in the union would have given me. And should something happen to me, my family can have what is there. Also I make 4 mor an hour with the non-union company and get 3 weeks paid vacation and after 10 years i get another week and a day. Also my health benefits are better. And there are no monthly dues. After having been on both sides, I would not go back to the union. I do ralize that not all non-union companies are this good, but some are. Another thing, we get more training than the union companies around here.
The Jersey locals and 420 are not in the national fund. (Yet)
Originally Posted by bustawrench1
To much work with too little time!!!!
Are you even in the union? Don't know the situation where they bought a hotel in FL and sunk a TON of money into it? The fines handed down for violating ERISA?
Originally Posted by d_griff
You don't know the half of what goes down and apparently how little say or control you actually haven't.
"In the Plumbers and Pipefitters Union
UA President Martin Maddaloni and Sec'y-Treasurer Thomas Patchell Ousted After Disastrous Pension Investments in Florida Hotel
by Jim McNamara
The U.S. Labor Department set the stage for the exit of Martin Maddaloni and Thomas Patchell last August by issuing an order that removed them as trustees of seven ERISA-covered funds after their reckless investment of national pension assets in the Diplomat Resort and Country Club in Hollywood, Florida.
On November 30, the two ousted trustees cut a deal with the UA Executive Board to vacate their union posts and become ex-president Maddaloni and ex-sec'y-treasurer Patchell. To soften the blow the Executive Board will pay the discredited duo their full salaries and benefits plus free use of cars and other perks through the end of 2006.
The Executive Board then moved William P. Hite into the president's empty chair. The newly anointed president now recommends to the Executive Board who takes over as sec'y- treasurer and who gets his previous job as assistant general president.
Maddaloni was paid $354,853 according to the most recent LM-2 report filed with the USDOL: $264,177 in salary and the remainder for "allowances" and "disbursements for official business." Patchell reported $308,675: $228,244 in salary and $80,431 in allowances (Bureau of National Affairs Construction Labor Report 11/24/04).
USDOL Collects $10.98 Million From Fund Trustees
Maddaloni, Patchell and two employer trustees are required to pay $10.98 million in restitution to the seven ERISA funds they mismanaged to build the 1,000 room Diplomat Hotel. It is unclear whether the almost $11 million payback, which includes civil penalties, actually comes from the trustees' deep pockets or is covered by trustee insurance paid by the UA funds.
Data on additional funds may yet be uncovered by an independent fiduciary appointed in 2000 by the USDOL. Further claims against sub-contractors and service providers are being pursued. The hotel opening was delayed by faulty work by a plumbing contractor."
Yea, real professionals...
Real nice building a hotel at 100% over budget and no financial plan. 100% over budget! .... and the UA plumbers can't install things properly?
The money thing can go deep. For instance, some of the union "educational seminars" happen at the good 'ol Diplomat... alot of grease, yes sir.
"AUD: Are there any ramifications from the scandal for UA members yet?
Well, the Fund Administrator and the Board of Trustees of the Plumbers and Pipefitters National Pension Plan (PPNPP) just sent out letters dated December 13, 2004 informing us that our future pension credits were cut by 75 percent effective January 1, 2005. The letter says that the pension fund has lost $1.2 billion dollars."
....all that and underfunded liabilities too.