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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    2,193
    Good move,it was regrettable for me as well that i worked non-union for close to 5 years before i went union,as long as i can physically perform my job in this trade,i will always be union..i just regret waiting so long and being "used' by a nonunion outfit

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,995
    I agree. Hey D, who you work for? Initials will do, I work for EL.
    Quote Originally Posted by d_griff View Post
    Good move,it was regrettable for me as well that i worked non-union for close to 5 years before i went union,as long as i can physically perform my job in this trade,i will always be union..i just regret waiting so long and being "used' by a nonunion outfit
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    69
    Ammonianite- Well said! by my name you can guess where I stand on this topic.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by absrbrtek View Post
    I agree. Hey D, who you work for? Initials will do, I work for EL.
    AAD..we kind of work together then if EL is who i think it is ..sautter owns us too

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,995
    I worked for AAD between like 83 and 88, it's a long time ago, the years could be off LOL. Yep EL is who you think it is. EL tells me I could work with AAD if you've got high tonnage chiller problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_griff View Post
    AAD..we kind of work together then if EL is who i think it is ..sautter owns us too
    Last edited by absrbrtek; 05-18-2007 at 02:48 AM.
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    2,193
    Quote Originally Posted by absrbrtek View Post
    I worked for AAD between like 83 and 88, it's a long time ago, the years could be off LOL. Yep EL is who you think it is. EL tells me I could work with AAD if you've got high tonnage chiller problems.
    Yeah well i may run into you one day,i worked with one of you guys down burdett tomlin hospital last summer when one of our chiller guy was pullin apart a centrifigul..and some of your guys work with us on some T.A.C jobs..
    i was just over at your shop there picking up some tac controllers..i live 10 minutes away ...small world

  7. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    City That Never Sleeps
    Posts
    66
    I have worked non union and union. Ive been in the union now for 16 years Local 638 NY.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    258
    right on brother. LU38 San Francisco is my home local. how are the conditions out here for service technicians? I'm actually in town here for the weekend celebrating my sisters b-day. I imagine there is CRAZY work here for the boys

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    I have freinds, good freinds who are staunchly anti union. And in any one single conversation, or all of them I have ever had with them, what ends up happening is they refuse to LISTEN and UNDERSTAND the persepctive I have on the issue. They completely ignore what I am trying to say. It is as if they have a trained and ready response to anything when it come to this subject.

    I don't get that at all. Not many guys look at the union in the way I see it. Not many understand why they have a good pension or a good health insurance and good wage package. My local for example is made up of over 3000 members. We have Pipe and Steam Fitters and then we have the service side guys. Your classified as to what your discipline is. When our union goes to negotiate and buy health insurance, our union can yeild a hefty discount by the big numbers of people who will participate in the medical plan.

    A non union small business entrpenuer in a HVAC contracting biz, could not afford the level of health insurance we as union guys buy it for because he does not have the number of people which would give him that Discount.

    And that goes the same for our defined pension. Our defined contribution. Most important a small contractor non union, could not come close to providing out of his pocket the level of training which is provided our members. There is much to be said about the union in terms of a group of 3000 people, belonging to a group and buying things like this.

    Our union, on the service side, has never been about protecting incompetence or apathy. I find that so ridiculous when non union people say that about our trade union. Given the fact that a union contractor has full authority and freedom of choice to employ or not employ any one particular guy, that contractor will be damned to keep a man onboard and working if he can not do the work. He has complete choice to can him. After all, he is paying top buck, he wants and expects and will execute for top buck, top guys.

    When comparing compensation, and I don't just mean what you see in your paycheck each week, but rather your overall compensation. Your health care. Ask and compare your level of coverage, taking into consideration your co pays and prescriptions ect. What about your future like pension and the like. We have defined contribution, it's basically a 401K, in addition to a pension. No non union contractor can even come close to that. Unless they have 3000 employees. Then he might be able to do it.

    All of this combined, to include saftey. To include schooling. Take everything into account. The overall set up. All things considered.

    Not one contractor who is in this field non union could muster that for me. It's just a fact.

    And this is one more tidbit. I bet you most non union contractors would absolutely love to provide this level of compensation. I mean after all they know, as we all know in this business, the better you can pay and provide, the better people you will attract. (who I might wonder tries to get into the union knowing the pay and benefits are better). If they just investigated the real numbers and get rid of the predjudice, they might find it is almost cheaper for them to go union as a contractor.

    Recently a women business contractor owner told me that she could not afford the $45 an hour for a union man. She was a residential contractor. I gather a union rep was attempting to contact her about joining. She absolutely omitted, refused, flat out denied my chance to explain to her, that the $45.00 an hour bought her a trained guy, which covered all of his compensation, which was everything I just explained. She just assumed the $45.00 was just on the paycheck. And no matter how hard I tried, she just flat out would not listen or try to understand.

    At $45 an hour, she I am sure can not compete even currently, with what she can compensate her people for, at a reduced level of benefits.

    If you ask me. That's a hell of a deal. 45 bucks. And thats it. And your guys got good health. A great retirement. Top flight training. This dollar amount is for residential. Your not forced to keep anyone not performing. Your able to demand top line people. You get to be as discretionary as you wish.

    I don't get the refusal from non union people to Understand and Listen.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    573
    Good points. I think many of us who were non-union have been fed a steady diet of misinformation by the non-union business sector over the years. But, as you stated, most of this propoganda has become so deeply ingrained into the American psyche, that it is indeed difficult to get people to listen. But we have to keep trying. Without strong unions, even the non-union workers will suffer exploitation and abuse. Unions provide a balance against the kind of corporate greed that we see running amok in the international business climate we see ourselves in. Unions are the only hope of preserving what remains of the middle class.
    See, the human mind is kind of like... a piñata. When it breaks open, there's a lot of surprises inside. Once you get the piñata perspective, you see that losing your mind can be a peak experience. ~Jane Wagner

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,338
    Local 141 Shreveport, La Born American, Die Union

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    You see. The comment you make Amoninite, about having a strong union. The choice of the word invoking the action such as strong, or strength if you will is one issue I have with your mentality. And you will soon learn how the strength of the union is not neccesarily about solidarity, muscle, strength in numbers, ect. It's about coming to the table and offering a contractor the best overall skill set in any one person so he can acheive his goals. Were a tool for him. Were a resource of highly skilled labor. Were a burden liftedd from him on a human resource level.

    Despite all the stories I have heard on here in the past about a company being SALTED, or infilitrated or forced and coerced into voting in the UA.

    Today's union is much much different. New leadership, new generation of people who don't see any value in that what so ever. My generation coming up in our 30's have decided that the unions best advantage is to only get more training, more skills, ect. Even our health, getting fit, not smoking, eating right. Saftey concious. Understanding the real value of ourselves and our education and our skills, only is usefull if the contractor is succesful.

    Were not always great. But we strive to be better every day. And that is a serious change of culture from days past.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    573
    Perhaps you misinterpreted what I meant when I referred to the necessity for strong unions, both domestically and abroad. Strength, especially in this post-modern world that we find ourselves in does not mean physical strength or "I'm gonna kick booty" assertions of power. The strength that I refer to is more akin to presence. For example, union presence can be asserted, as you have alluded to, by having the best-trained, most qualified individuals within a particular trade or discipline. This is a form of strength derived not by a full frontal assault on the political or business scene, but through the knowledge and superiority of the labor force.

    No, I certainly wouldn't advocate a return of the patterns of the past- baseball bats, chains, knives, etc. Such stereotypical images have been played upon and exploited for years by those (self-included, before my epiphany) staunch anti-union members of our society. Such tactics only served to alienate almost everyone and throw gasoline on the fire of the anti-union movement.

    Strength comes from knowledge, training, and professionalism.
    See, the human mind is kind of like... a piñata. When it breaks open, there's a lot of surprises inside. Once you get the piñata perspective, you see that losing your mind can be a peak experience. ~Jane Wagner

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