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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    23

    PureAir air purification system vs. healthy climate 16 media air

    Hi

    It's me again (mom of child with cystic fibrosis). We are going to install a bunch of Lennox products for a complete heating/cooling/dehumidifying/erv system in our new house. I was also going to put in a perfect 16 filter from IQ air.

    Well my dad was just on the phone with Lennox and they were talking about their PureAir air purification system (I'm not sure if this is a bypass system or not). When I looked at it online

    http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/brochures...0Solutions.pdf
    here is another brochure that tells about the UV component
    http://www.sunbeltair.com/PDF/Lennox...urePureAir.pdf

    At first I thought there were just two systems but now I see that there are quite a few.

    There is the Pure Air purification system, germicidal lamps (I thought these produced ozone, why does it say ozone free?). Then there is the healthy climate 16 media filter and a HEPA bypass system. Actually, it's very confusing how many products there actually are to choose from.

    The reason why I'm writing in about this is that I thought I had it all figured out and was going to get the IQ air perfect 16 filter (one for the basement unit and one for the attic). Well my dad just got off the phone with someone from Lennox and now he is really excited about this Pure Air purification system (and maybe the uv lamp too?). I'm skeptical but wanted your input.

    I guess bottom line, my question is. Is the pureair system going to give us better air quality the perfect 16 media filter from IQ air. And can I believe what it claims about it's UV light not producing ozone?

    Thanks!

    Sarah

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Lubbock Texas
    Posts
    773
    We manufacture similar equipment. And from what I have seen up close from Lennox's Pure Air System it does not produce Ozone and will not. They take a different approach to activating the catalysis than we do most likely for liability reasons. They use a UV bulb that isn't germicidal but when the catalysis is activated it has the same potential of accomplishing the same work as using a UVGI bulbby itself and VOC removel to boot. It just takes more air changes to get the same effect.
    I have no problems with there PCO system we just take a different approach. Now as far as the HEPA bypass system I am not a big proponent of them for this reason. Most system only move between 300 and 600 CFM and this is ruffly a 1/3 of the air stream. You do the math to get several complete air changes in a residences is almost impossible in an hour with the unit cycling. A merv 16 filter is very efficient 95% of.3 to.0um. With a UV PCO system to supplement the merv 16 filtration is enough. A HEPA by pass to me seems a little over board for the small difference you would make in the environment and justifying the costs.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    184
    I would be concerned about their ozone free claims too.

    My limited HO understanding of this says it's unlikely to be 100 percent ozone free.

    Are there tests results available and/or has anyone tested these?

    Also, I think ozone testing is NOT very common and I wonder why? One reason I heard was the equipment can be expensive and does not always provide accurate results? Any ideas? Anyone done ozone testing for HO?
    Quote Originally Posted by genesis View Post
    We manufacture similar equipment. And from what I have seen up close from Lennox's Pure Air System it does not produce Ozone and will not. They take a different approach to activating the catalysis than we do most likely for liability reasons. They use a UV bulb that isn't germicidal but when the catalysis is activated it has the same potential of accomplishing the same work as using a UVGI bulbby itself and VOC removel to boot. It just takes more air changes to get the same effect.
    I have no problems with there PCO system we just take a different approach. Now as far as the HEPA bypass system I am not a big proponent of them for this reason. Most system only move between 300 and 600 CFM and this is ruffly a 1/3 of the air stream. You do the math to get several complete air changes in a residences is almost impossible in an hour with the unit cycling. A merv 16 filter is very efficient 95% of.3 to.0um. With a UV PCO system to supplement the merv 16 filtration is enough. A HEPA by pass to me seems a little over board for the small difference you would make in the environment and justifying the costs.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    184
    You might check into the annual operating/maintenance cost for whatever system you decide to purchase. When I priced them last year those UV bulbs & parts were not cheap and don't last long if you use them often.

    Suspect all IAQ stuff like that would last longer under limited use but what's the point in having it if you don't use it often?
    Quote Originally Posted by samellman View Post
    Hi

    It's me again (mom of child with cystic fibrosis). We are going to install a bunch of Lennox products for a complete heating/cooling/dehumidifying/erv system in our new house. I was also going to put in a perfect 16 filter from IQ air.

    Well my dad was just on the phone with Lennox and they were talking about their PureAir air purification system (I'm not sure if this is a bypass system or not). When I looked at it online

    http://www.lennox.com/pdfs/brochures...0Solutions.pdf
    here is another brochure that tells about the UV component
    http://www.sunbeltair.com/PDF/Lennox...urePureAir.pdf

    At first I thought there were just two systems but now I see that there are quite a few.

    There is the Pure Air purification system, germicidal lamps (I thought these produced ozone, why does it say ozone free?). Then there is the healthy climate 16 media filter and a HEPA bypass system. Actually, it's very confusing how many products there actually are to choose from.

    The reason why I'm writing in about this is that I thought I had it all figured out and was going to get the IQ air perfect 16 filter (one for the basement unit and one for the attic). Well my dad just got off the phone with someone from Lennox and now he is really excited about this Pure Air purification system (and maybe the uv lamp too?). I'm skeptical but wanted your input.

    I guess bottom line, my question is. Is the pureair system going to give us better air quality the perfect 16 media filter from IQ air. And can I believe what it claims about it's UV light not producing ozone?

    Thanks!

    Sarah

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    159
    I am a lennox premier dealer from wisconsin. Your best choice is the pureair. It is not a bypass. It also comes with the merv 16 filter, has a set a uva light bulbs that do not produce ozone. The bulbs activate the metal catalyst that is also inside the filter cabinet. The system have gone way down in price since our last dealer meeting. They figured out a way to save money in manufacturing due to our dealer complaints. They also lowered the price of the replacement filter kits. I recommend changing all the filters once a year, of course, every situation is different (if you have a ton of animals the filter would get clogged faster and need replacing sooner) but that is typical. Also, you know that the system will be at its peak preformace every year. If you ever have a question you could also see our website www.kettlemoraineheating.com there is a ask a question page callled furnace doc don't hesitate to write or call. The merv 16 filter by itself is good, and the hepa bypass filters are nice, but I would go with the pureair.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    184
    Has it been tested to prove it doesn't produce ozone?

    I found 1 site that sells UV bulbs and it sounds like some bulbs do product ozone so be careful. http://www.calutech.com/faq.htm

    They also mention bulbs should be replaced at least every year

    Q: Do your UV lamps produce ozone?
    A: Many UV lamps intentionally produce ozone in large amounts (UV-V), which we do not recommend, nor does the EPA or American Lung Association. The UV lamps we use (UV-C) have special tubing that filters out the 185nm ozone wavelength, however all UV lamps that are considered 'ozone free' do produce some ozone, but the amount of ozone produced is so minute (0.002ppm) it is not considered an ozone producing lamp.



    Quote Originally Posted by furnacedoc View Post
    I am a lennox premier dealer from wisconsin. Your best choice is the pureair. It is not a bypass. It also comes with the merv 16 filter, has a set a uva light bulbs that do not produce ozone. The bulbs activate the metal catalyst that is also inside the filter cabinet. The system have gone way down in price since our last dealer meeting. They figured out a way to save money in manufacturing due to our dealer complaints. They also lowered the price of the replacement filter kits. I recommend changing all the filters once a year, of course, every situation is different (if you have a ton of animals the filter would get clogged faster and need replacing sooner) but that is typical. Also, you know that the system will be at its peak preformace every year. If you ever have a question you could also see our website www.kettlemoraineheating.com there is a ask a question page callled furnace doc don't hesitate to write or call. The merv 16 filter by itself is good, and the hepa bypass filters are nice, but I would go with the pureair.

  7. #7
    Boy, this selecting an Indoor air quality product gets confusing. No wonder homeowners are having a hard time. It seems to be a "decision tree" with a thousand branches.

    Yes, Lennox has some good products. According to a recent article (and the Lennox Press Release) Lennox is going ozone-free with their IAQ line. Based on the content in this thread this seems like a pretty good marketing position to take.

    However, there are pluses and minuses with all systems. Unfortunately, no one tells you about them until after you have purchased the product. For example, in the case of the PureAir system you really need to research the cost for replacing the MERV 16 filter and the UV bulbs. I purchased one of these filters at wholesale to test and based on that I would not be surprised if your cost for the filter and UV bulbs is between $150 and $200 per year (per system).

    Next, let's take the issue of the PCO (photocatalytic oxidation) part of the Pure Air system. This PCO technology is very promising for the reduction of VOC's in indoor environments. However, you need to be aware that a recent study conducted by Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory on PCO's and various types of common VOC's found that significant quantities of formaldehyde and acetaldehyde were produced as byproducts of these reactions. To learn more about this go to www.texairfilters.com/news/uvpcoformaldehyde.htm. You can also find the original study on-line.

    As Roseanne Rosanna Dana said: "It's always somethin'."

    Teddy Bear pointed out that we all have our biases. Mine happens to be that I like to keep things simple. I am skeptical of new products until they have been tested and proven.

    If I were you, I would stick with the IQ Air Perfect 16. If you feel like you need to go 100% Lennox, the HC16 is a good product. You don't need to be messing with the indoor air chemistry with a child that has CF.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    184
    Good post... I think your annual cost numbers might be a little low too as when I checked with my contractor last Nov the annual costs for a HO was even higher.

    I would hope more homeowners would try the KISS approach.
    Quote Originally Posted by breathe easy View Post
    Boy, this selecting an Indoor air quality product gets confusing. No wonder homeowners are having a hard time. It seems to be a "decision tree" with a thousand branches.

    However, there are pluses and minuses with all systems. Unfortunately, no one tells you about them until after you have purchased the product. For example, in the case of the PureAir system you really need to research the cost for replacing the MERV 16 filter and the UV bulbs. I purchased one of these filters at wholesale to test and based on that I would not be surprised if your cost for the filter and UV bulbs is between $150 and $200 per year (per system).


    Teddy Bear pointed out that we all have our biases. Mine happens to be that I like to keep things simple. I am skeptical of new products until they have been tested and proven.

    If I were you, I would stick with the IQ Air Perfect 16. If you feel like you need to go 100% Lennox, the HC16 is a good product. You don't need to be messing with the indoor air chemistry with a child that has CF.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Lubbock Texas
    Posts
    773
    Are you not changing the chemistry in the air when you filter the pollen, mold, dust mites, and different particulates out of the air or removing humidity and heat out of the ai stream. Why not take it one step further and remove the VOCs bacteria and bio aerosols out of the air stream.
    And I will go to my grave disputing the one and only paper on the net of the failed Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratories test of their PCO producing formaldehyde . Even NASA crashed a few ships before they got it right. Here is an old paper in an extreme circumstance that shows this from the Department of National Renewable Energy http://www.sematech.org/docubase/document/3236aeng.pdf

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    23
    Thank you so much everyone .

    This thread helped so much. I've decided to stick with my original plan and go with 2 IQ air perfect 16 air filters. One for the attic and one for the basement. My dad negotiated a bit with the dealer and the contract is being written up now. We're pretty much getting top of the line everything with Lennox products including an erv system and humiditrol. I feel really good about being able to start with new everything so that we can make sure that they are maintained correctly.

    Of course I have two last decisions to make which I'll be posting about on my original thread 'mom of child with cystic fibrosis...'

    you guys are great!!!

    Sarah

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    tacma wa
    Posts
    19
    Pure Air is the best !! I installed 1 in my house and cant smell anything it is awsome!!!No Ozone ,MERV 16 the best!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,371
    Quote Originally Posted by samellman View Post
    Thank you so much everyone .

    This thread helped so much. I've decided to stick with my original plan and go with 2 IQ air perfect 16 air filters. One for the attic and one for the basement. My dad negotiated a bit with the dealer and the contract is being written up now. We're pretty much getting top of the line everything with Lennox products including an erv system and humiditrol. I feel really good about being able to start with new everything so that we can make sure that they are maintained correctly.
    Sarah
    Good luck on your equipment selection. I like the fresh air and the attempt at humidity control. I am willing to donate a "Humidity Alert" to monitor the basement for high humidity. It's a digital monitor that tracks the hours of excess high humidity,+60%RH, for more than 12 continuous hours. In addition to accumulating the total hours, an alarm sounds. I assume your contractor is aware of maintaining <50%RH throughout the summer. You can add a dehumdifier if unable to control summer humidity. I appreciate the difficulty with selecting equipment and a A/C contractor. Another issue is to keep your new home dry while under construction. Lumber to should be protected from being wet for exteneded times. The entire home should be kept dry during all phases of contruction to avoid mold growth on the wood. Hope for dry weather. Email me your address to mail the "Humidity Alert". Dehu TB

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Good luck on your equipment selection. I like the fresh air and the attempt at humidity control. I am willing to donate a "Humidity Alert" to monitor the basement for high humidity. It's a digital monitor that tracks the hours of excess high humidity,+60%RH, for more than 12 continuous hours. In addition to accumulating the total hours, an alarm sounds. I assume your contractor is aware of maintaining <50%RH throughout the summer. You can add a dehumdifier if unable to control summer humidity. I appreciate the difficulty with selecting equipment and a A/C contractor. Another issue is to keep your new home dry while under construction. Lumber to should be protected from being wet for exteneded times. The entire home should be kept dry during all phases of contruction to avoid mold growth on the wood. Hope for dry weather. Email me your address to mail the "Humidity Alert". Dehu TB
    Thank you very much, that is so kind of you!

    However, we are installing a humiditrol system for both the attic and basement systems and our contractor has told us that we will be able to set the humidity level that we want to achieve. I was thinking I'd set it at 40% but I'm not really sure what the data shows about what level with prevent organism growth.

    Sarah

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