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  1. #1

    Daikin Ururu Sarara Humidity Problem

    Hi all, I've been reading posts from HVAC-TALK for a while, decided to ask for advice here

    Background information
    2 months ago I've got FTXR42EV1B9 / RXR42EV1B9 model indoor/outdoor units of Daikin Ururu Sarara installed, the reason I went with Ururu Sarara was to have humidification/dehumidification/air cleaning/refreshing at one unit. Had a lot of problems with installation, the installers being extremely clumsy in Turkey, also the unit's functions are really primitive, I would expect to be able to control temperature and humidity at the same time, like an auto function, but unit's all operating modes are really limited, requires constant control to match temperature and humidity levels. As there are only 3 humidity levels available and you can't humidify properly when you are cooling.

    The first outdoor unit was defective, the air fan was broken, I had a feeling Daikin was sending faulty units to Turkey, also from the beginning the unit caused dampness/moisture, after getting an hygrometer I saw that the unit was pumping RH levels to 70%'s - although outside and inside levels were normally at 45% - which is an extreme change, and the unit does this at auto/dry cooling/cooling modes. Anyway I managed to get a replacement for both indoor/outdoor units, the outdoor unit actually got changed 2 times, so I tested 3 units, the clumsy installers stepped on the outside unit once and broke it, that's why the outdoor unit got changed twice.

    The Problem
    No matter which mode the unit is in, after the specified temperature level is met, the unit starts increasing the humidity level in the room. (no matter the air refreshing/cleaning features are on or off)
    For example lets say the room is 22 degrees, and the unit is set to cool to 23 degrees or dry cool to 23 degrees -- with dehumidification set to standard or hi, the humidity starts increasing from 40%'s to 70%'s
    Without the unit operating, humidity levels stay the same, but with unit operating (operating but near idle), the humidity levels jumps to these levels in <30 minutes.

    The solution is to turn the unit off after the desired temperature is met, which requires a lot of effort, turning the unit off and back on again. I've considered building an external arduino-based controller to govern the units functions, however I didn't start after reading that Daikin's IR protocols are complicated/cryptic.

    The units were all made at 2008, that's what made me think that Daikin sent a faulty line to Turkey.

    Question
    Does other air conditioning units cause humidity to increase as a side-effect? What could be the reason of this problem?
    (My room is <30m2's and the unit is ~18000btu's - however the room isn't tightly separated from the home - a dry home at ~ 22-25 degrees)

    Thanks in Advance

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaanx View Post
    Hi all, I've been reading posts from HVAC-TALK for a while, decided to ask for advice here

    Question
    Does other air conditioning units cause humidity to increase as a side-effect? What could be the reason of this problem?
    (My room is <30m2's and the unit is ~18000btu's - however the room isn't tightly separated from the home - a dry home at ~ 22-25 degrees)

    Thanks in Advance
    Yes, the cooling of the air raises the %RH to near 95%RH as moisture is removed. As the cold dried air is mixed with the warm air in the room the average %RH is lowered. If water is draining from the unit, it is working. Get a good dehumidifier to go with your a/c.
    REgards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Yes, the cooling of the air raises the %RH to near 95%RH as moisture is removed. As the cold dried air is mixed with the warm air in the room the average %RH is lowered. If water is draining from the unit, it is working. Get a good dehumidifier to go with your a/c.
    REgards TB
    Thanks a lot for the answer, the water was initially pouring, however after the unit got de-installed the first time, an extreme amount of water poured from the unit/drain, so I made the installers improve the slope/installation

    What's strange is that, intially the RH drops to lets say 45% - at 22 degrees, at that point the AC halts, and the RH slowly increases

    Lets say the room is normally at 24 degrees, AC off for hours, and when the AC is set to 26 degrees at COLD, normally it should only circulate air to measure the temperature, and the temperature RH should stay ~ at same levels, however in these cases humidity always increases to > 60's from 40's

    I'm also thinking whether the problems are caused by over-sized BTU issues, or air/humidity movements caused by temperature difference etc, however the last situation I mentioned discards my theories and makes me think the outdoor unit is pumping humidity through the humidity hose (I check the water line on the indoor unit, there is a minor amount of water, seems like a leftover rather than a collection)

    I'm considering getting a de-humidifier, can't be sure whether the de-humidifier can pull humidity fast enough to match AC's humidity generation
    I'm also considering running the AC continuously at AUTO mode and getting a de-humidifier, humidifier to keep the RH level around 50%, however it seems like an overkill, waste of space/energy/money, turning off the AC when it starts idling seems more logical

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    I'm thinking TB should do a field visit and report his findings? does the fan continue to run after the setpoint is reached?
    ...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by kangaroogod View Post
    I'm thinking TB should do a field visit and report his findings? does the fan continue to run after the setpoint is reached?
    yes, slowly, also a minor hissing sound that lead me to believe a humidification routine is running

    What's strange is all the devices in Turkey are made in 2008, 5 years that's a very long time, I'm thinking the filters might even degraded by this time

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
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    6,337
    Quote Originally Posted by kaanx View Post
    Thanks a lot for the answer, the water was initially pouring, however after the unit got de-installed the first time, an extreme amount of water poured from the unit/drain, so I made the installers improve the slope/installation

    What's strange is that, intially the RH drops to lets say 45% - at 22 degrees, at that point the AC halts, and the RH slowly increases

    Lets say the room is normally at 24 degrees, AC off for hours, and when the AC is set to 26 degrees at COLD, normally it should only circulate air to measure the temperature, and the temperature RH should stay ~ at same levels, however in these cases humidity always increases to > 60's from 40's

    I'm also thinking whether the problems are caused by over-sized BTU issues, or air/humidity movements caused by temperature difference etc, however the last situation I mentioned discards my theories and makes me think the outdoor unit is pumping humidity through the humidity hose (I check the water line on the indoor unit, there is a minor amount of water, seems like a leftover rather than a collection)

    I'm considering getting a de-humidifier, can't be sure whether the de-humidifier can pull humidity fast enough to match AC's humidity generation
    I'm also considering running the AC continuously at AUTO mode and getting a de-humidifier, humidifier to keep the RH level around 50%, however it seems like an overkill, waste of space/energy/money, turning off the AC when it starts idling seems more logical
    Sounds like normal operation. At the end of the cooling cycle, there are several lbs. of moisture on the cooling coil. The moisture on the coil slowly evaporates back into the home. Plus moisture from the occupants and outside air is humidifying the space which all raises the indoor %RH.
    Regards TB
    PS. I have Turkey once a year and it is enough for me.
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Marco Island, Fl
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    729
    That unit actually has a HUMIDIFICATION feature as well as a DE-HUMIDIFICATION. It sounds as if you may have a problem with the HUMIDIFICATION feature. The system will absorb moisture from outside and move it to the indoors.
    When operating properly, this system will act as a stand alone de-humidifier.

    It sounds as if you have it in the "MOISTURE COOLING operation" mode. You should be using the "Sahara Dry" mode if there is not a lot of cooling load or "Dry Cooling" mode if there is sufficient cooling load.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by davo View Post
    That unit actually has a HUMIDIFICATION feature as well as a DE-HUMIDIFICATION. It sounds as if you may have a problem with the HUMIDIFICATION feature. The system will absorb moisture from outside and move it to the indoors.
    When operating properly, this system will act as a stand alone de-humidifier.

    It sounds as if you have it in the "MOISTURE COOLING operation" mode. You should be using the "Sahara Dry" mode if there is not a lot of cooling load or "Dry Cooling" mode if there is sufficient cooling load.
    Wasn't the case, on Sahara Dry / Dry modes, it still creates moisture, the new unit is much better than the older one, doesn't cause any problematic amounts of moisture
    The unit also humidifies the air, on whatever mode it is on, I'm guessing it's part of the cleaning function, however the moisture problem I'm talking about is different.

    Not keeping the unit always on solves my issues, didn't had any problem with the new unit, haven't really tried it on heating modes, whenever I turn the heating on, the humidity jumps up to 60's from 48's, immediately, hoping it's a temporary thing

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaanx View Post
    Wasn't the case, on Sahara Dry / Dry modes, it still creates moisture, the new unit is much better than the older one, doesn't cause any problematic amounts of moisture
    The unit also humidifies the air, on whatever mode it is on, I'm guessing it's part of the cleaning function, however the moisture problem I'm talking about is different.

    Not keeping the unit always on solves my issues, didn't had any problem with the new unit, haven't really tried it on heating modes, whenever I turn the heating on, the humidity jumps up to 60's from 48's, immediately, hoping it's a temporary thing
    18,000 BTUs for a 100 sq ft room?
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  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaanx View Post
    Wasn't the case, on Sahara Dry / Dry modes, it still creates moisture, the new unit is much better than the older one, doesn't cause any problematic amounts of moisture
    The unit also humidifies the air, on whatever mode it is on, I'm guessing it's part of the cleaning function, however the moisture problem I'm talking about is different.

    Not keeping the unit always on solves my issues, didn't had any problem with the new unit, haven't really tried it on heating modes, whenever I turn the heating on, the humidity jumps up to 60's from 48's, immediately, hoping it's a temporary thing
    When your evaporator coil is saturated with moisture from a recent cooling cycle, switching to heat mode causes most of that moisture to rapidly evaporate back into the space because you're heating the coil and the moisture on it. You're essentially turning it into a steam humidifier. My suggestion is that you don't switch it to heating mode unless you need heat.

    You also need the blower to shut down when a call for cooling ends. Running the blower continuously, even on low speed, will also re-evaporate moisture off of the coil.

    Switching modes doesn't allow the system to operate as intended, so stop playing with the controls and things should improve. Set it and forget it.

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