to much heat inside my store
let me first state my back ground and then the problem.
I have an electronics background working in a nuclear facility.
My wife has a Russian grocery store with one Hussman 3 door reach-in cooler , a 3 door beverage-air reach in freezer, and a small deli case made sometime in the 60-s( brand name cross country of Denver Colorado).
The problems are these. The beverage-air is a rattle trap. the hussman and the deli case work fine. Although I do not understand how the deli case works because I can not find a thermostat control. The only gage is a two scale Ranco unit read in kg/lbs with the words. cut out in minutes. cut in differential.
The defrost timer is disabled. But I have only had to defrost it one time in six months.
The next problem is the heat that all of these give off in a small store. In the winter that is fine. But (from ohms law power is equaled to volts times amps. http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/page2.asp) if you have a 230 volt device pulling 15 amps it like having a couple of space heaters kicking on and off at the same time you are trying to stay cool.
One solution was suggested that I move the compressors outside so the heat and noise would be outside. I thought perhaps I would build a small building to put them in. The question would be how large. My land lord is a dairy supply business so he does a lot of medium level refrigeration work on the farm. All of the refrigeration work will be done by him but i like to understand all things. What would be the pitfalls of having these compressors outside when it gets 40 below 0.
Last edited by bl23; 04-21-2007 at 06:19 PM.
Buy a bigger Air conditioner for your store and for the noise throw on a compressor sound insulating blanket.
I would not put them in a building. it will just get to hot in there and overheat the compressors. I would either purchase compressor weather proof enclosures or make an enclosure for the units. You want to keep the front and back open for airflow but have covering so they are not effected by the elements. You would also need low ambiant controls and crankcase heaters for the systems to operate correctly outdoors. Temperture at 40 below 0 I have never expierenced anything like that so I don't know if other controls would be needed. You need to have a professional refrigeration technician take a look.
You could add A/C but it would cost you more money to run it just to overcome the heat produced by the refer units.
Better solution is to remote the refer units. Remoting means to move the refrigeration units outside so the heat is rejected out there. There are ways to deal with the cold outside temps, some controls will need to be added and you could build a mechanical room to put the units in that have fans and louvers controlled by thermostats to pull in only the amount of outside air needed to remove the heat from the refer units.
Now....this is not a job for the novice or or handyman. You will need a refer tech that knows what he's doing. A job like this will also take a considerable amount of money to do right but it's probably the best long term solution.
Originally Posted by k_fridge
He'll probally cry about his heating bill when it's 40 below outside and wish the condensors were back inside
You know in all seriousness...if it's that cold there just introduce some outside air into the store. Wouldn't take much at that temp. He'd have to mix it with inside air to temper it before bringing it inside.
Originally Posted by kbghdg
If any of these units is a cap tube system you may have problems with remoting it.If your landlord knows refrigeration you shouldn't be concerned with all these.If he can remote them and then they work in all seasons...If you wanna understand things then you can search at this forum for remoting condensing units I am sure you will find plenty of info.I think in one of my posts it was discussed in lenght..here I found it:
I don't even know if I am supposed to help end users on this forum per site instructions..
call a refrigeration contractor.
Dowadudda is right on dude
Tin Knockers BANG for a living
i think the cheapest and best way to fix the problem is to add bigger a/c in the store with head pressure control but i have never done that where it gets 40 below i also have never seen below zero temps and dont want to i cant beleive it gets that cold there. wow
The best solution to this problem will start with bringing in a reputable Refrigeration Contractor to actually look at it. Strongly advise against trying to solve this on your own.
The views and opinions posted here are my own. They do not reflect the corporate policies of my employer and will most likely get me fired at some point.
6 of 1 half dozen of the other i dont think you will (ever) be happy, fix the (rattle trap) add an additional hvac sytem!
Originally Posted by bl23
the pitfalls of the condenser being in a 40 below environment would be too low of condensing temp/pressures!
if outside, go with the mechanical room which would include exhausts for warmer temps! like others have stated
I had never intended to do the work myself. First off I do not have the experience to know where to get the correct refrigerant(s) and then the reasons go on from there. There is a lot of gots-ya's out there.
To be honest it gets to -40 only rarely but regularly gets -35 for only a few weeks out of the year. But if you have ever tried to start a car when its gets below -25 you can understand my concern.
I like the idea of another HVAC system. The idea being you can vent the heat when you do not want it. of course, I will complain when the heat is outside and I need to heat the inside would you. Its just like at home. every month there are bills you hate to pay...thats life.
can I also remove heat with a desuper coil? similar to an ice machine. I think from putting the compressor outside I can see how the refrigerant might get too cold maybe making the compressor try to compress a liquid at times. Can a desuper coil remove too much heat from the refrigerant? The reason I was hisatant about just calling a contractor is while I was in getting furnace parts for my land lord at the refer parts store I asked a couple of the guys there about desupers. No one knew what I was talking about. Yet I know ice machines have them. They are many times stuck in a inside room which gets hot.
any advice on noise reduction. won't adding a sound blanket on the compressor make the compressor run hotter?
I can compare the construction of my deli case made in the 60-s with the freezer which is 3 years old. in the 60's they used a lot more wood and heaver steel. The freezer just seems to have a lot to tin that is not mounted very tight, hence it rattles.
Thanks again for your advice. I sure I will be able to ask the contractor the correct questions.