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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    5
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    Confused Vacuum pump failure. Need help!

    Hi guys. I am a newbie here but not in the hvac.

    We have some problem with CPS VP10D vacuum pump. Dont tell me its a piece of sh**, and that JB, YJ are better. Here in Russia these are the best you can get (without tricky ordering on ebay).

    Local dealer's service guys have no idea how to deal with these pumps. And it seems that vacuum equipment companies or have no idea too or have no interest to try fixing little pump. I wrote to CPS products email and also submitted feedback on their web site. No one replied.

    So I hope that someone here can help me or can contact me to some techs who can) Don't want to trash it)

    So the pump worked OK, was frequently serviced. One day we found the pump is not pumping (micron gauge readings were above 12000 micron). We checked the strainer, checked for leaks, changed the oil, took off the front cover (housing) and cleaned minor contamination. We disassembled pump mechanism and checked for excessive wear, everything seemed OK. Then we assembled everything back and pump started to perform like this:

    1. It doesn't pump (12000 microns or higher) with the gas ballast open
    2. It spills oil through the gas ballast valve while the valve is open
    3. It doesn't pump deeper than 600-700 microns even with gas ballast closed.
    4. The pumping down speed is significantly reduced

    It seems like one stage is out of operation. The reason can be in discharge valves, gas ballast (??) or some other minor failure. I dont know, Im tired of this beast)) Again, cylinder walls, rotors, vanes, discharge valve plates and it's catchers are all seem to be OK. There is almost nothing to fail there))

    Appreciate your help!

  2. Likes RaphaelBR liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne / Victoria / Australia
    Posts
    38
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    I'm not sure if I can be of help but I can relate. My first vac pump when I first started out was also a CPS but a model up, the VP2DA. It did work fine as a good little pump until the same as you it just stopped pulling a good vacuum and with the gas ballast closed it struggled to pull down to 500-600 microns. I serviced it regularly to the extent of changing oil every vac and sometimes 2-3 oil changes to complete a vac. I gave up on it and put it in the shed and haven't looked at it or powered it back up since. I replaced it with a Red Robinair which didn't last as long as the CPS surprisingly, which was then replaced with a JB Industries pump I bought secondhand off a retiring technician and now I also have a base model Javac as well as a TEZ8. I have spoken to CPS at the ARBS trade show in Melbourne and they were telling me that rebuild kits are available for CPS pumps. Perhaps you may need to contact another division of CPS who might be more forthcoming with assistance.

    Sorry if I can't be of anymore assistance with your issue.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago area
    Posts
    3,186
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    Does it leak oil. I had one that worked great until it started leaking oil. I tore it down and found a bad shaft seal to the motor. I stopped there and bought a new pump. Im betting you have a shaft seal issue also.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    5,475
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    Quote Originally Posted by biguso View Post
    ...We have some problem with CPS VP10D vacuum pump. Dont tell me its a piece of sh**, and that JB, YJ are better...
    I guess I'm out.
    Someday, I hope to be just as brave as Harry Stamper.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    84
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    check the breather make sure it's not restricted. easy way is just remove it and test the pump

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    5
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    Thank you guys! We found the problem, it's neither breather not the oil seal.

    At first we found there is only one hollow bolt in the set. Then we decided right place for it It should take place as excessive oil relief way holding the oil screen at the same time. Apparently we have put the bolt on the wrong place while tore it down the first time and blocked the channel. If she channel is blocked it doesn't pump to a microns range. Right after we have replaced the bolt the pump started to pump fine down to 100 microns and lower.

    The second and the most important thing is the rotor to cylinder wall axial clearance. If its too small the pump will seize, if its too big the oil will not seal the chamber. So it should be adjusted at .002" using feeler gauge blades. If the pump mechanism has been tore down, it should be assembled with all clearances adjusted.

    I found the manual on some one stage pump which contents all clearances values. The theme is tagged so if anyone will have similar problems PM me I will tell all I know.

  8. Likes kamersoutdoor, aquadave liked this post
  9. #7
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    36
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    Could you share this manual?


    Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fremont, Indiana
    Posts
    3,134
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    Quote Originally Posted by biguso View Post
    Hi guys. I am a newbie here but not in the hvac.

    We have some problem with CPS VP10D vacuum pump. Dont tell me its a piece of sh**, and that JB, YJ are better. Here in Russia these are the best you can get (without tricky ordering on ebay).

    Local dealer's service guys have no idea how to deal with these pumps. And it seems that vacuum equipment companies or have no idea too or have no interest to try fixing little pump. I wrote to CPS products email and also submitted feedback on their web site. No one replied.

    So I hope that someone here can help me or can contact me to some techs who can) Don't want to trash it)

    So the pump worked OK, was frequently serviced. One day we found the pump is not pumping (micron gauge readings were above 12000 micron). We checked the strainer, checked for leaks, changed the oil, took off the front cover (housing) and cleaned minor contamination. We disassembled pump mechanism and checked for excessive wear, everything seemed OK. Then we assembled everything back and pump started to perform like this:

    1. It doesn't pump (12000 microns or higher) with the gas ballast open
    2. It spills oil through the gas ballast valve while the valve is open
    3. It doesn't pump deeper than 600-700 microns even with gas ballast closed.
    4. The pumping down speed is significantly reduced

    It seems like one stage is out of operation. The reason can be in discharge valves, gas ballast (??) or some other minor failure. I dont know, Im tired of this beast)) Again, cylinder walls, rotors, vanes, discharge valve plates and it's catchers are all seem to be OK. There is almost nothing to fail there))

    Appreciate your help!
    Welcome to hvactalk!
    Get your post count up, and apply for pro membership. A lot to be learned and shared on the pro side of this site!
    Member of the "Work Exchange Program"
    "Will work for knowledge"

    "Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid"
    A Einstein

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    5
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    Quote Originally Posted by biguso View Post
    The theme is tagged
    I mean the thread))

    Quote Originally Posted by RaphaelBR View Post
    Could you share this manual?
    Of course. Cannot post direct links as I am newbie)))) Try google "Busch_R_5_0160_0250_0400_0502_0630_B_MR.pdf". One of the few docs I found and the only useful one. Also try search the Google with "rotary vane vacuum pump oil clearance" or so. The .002" clearance is a kind of "de facto" standard. Its also the thinnest feeler blade in the cheap set))

    Quote Originally Posted by kamersoutdoor View Post
    Welcome to hvactalk!
    Get your post count up, and apply for pro membership. A lot to be learned and shared on the pro side of this site!
    Thanks) Believe me I already have found so much useful information on the open side)) as a read the hvac-talk from 2011 or so. Pro side sounds even more exciting.

  12. Likes kamersoutdoor liked this post
  13. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,315
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    I think you now might have a new business repairing vacuum pumps in Russia. Sounds like easy money.

    Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

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  15. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BALloyd View Post
    I think you now might have a new business repairing vacuum pumps in Russia. Sounds like easy money.
    Do you want me to repair yours?)))
    In Russia there is no market for that, cause no one use micron gauges. No one know if it pumps or not) I know only few guys who use (they are also on hvac-talk).

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