More attacks on seperation of church and state - Page 2
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 36
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    in a house, Appomattox, Va.
    Posts
    3,233
    It doesn't surprise me the cathloic church would dictate to politions, used to pretty much run Europe that way.

    In Virginia there used to be a state religion (Church of England or Episcapal). Patrick Henry is remembered for defending two Baptist preachers for preaching w/o a state license, which the state would not have issued due to their differences on baptism.

    If I recall correctly, "The Federalist Papers" were essays written to explain exactly why the founding fathers put together our government this way, explains the spirit they had in the writing.
    Col 3:23


    questions asked, answers received, ignorance abated

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    If you are going to try to tell me that what the founders penned when they wrote the constitution does not mean what it literally says then the burden is on you to prove your case. What you are doing is just the thing progressives do when they want to screw up the meaning of the constitution to make it say something they WANT it to say as opposed to what it actually says.

    This is one of the ways they have screwed up our country the way they have. You are going down a slippery path with your view of the constitution.
    Watch about a dozen hours of lectures at this address:

    www.hillsdale.edu

    And come back here and tell me interpretation does not change as time goes along.

    And NO, the burden of proof is not on me... the desire to learn is on everyone.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,778
    This is all old news.....organized religion and politics have been synonymous for centuries. The Catholic church even backed the 3rd Reich.
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

    - General George S. Patton

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,766
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I understand the intent of the constitutions calling for a seperation of church and state, as well as how all factions attempt to manipulate the intent of the constitution. It is still just as despicable for a religious organization in the U.S. to attempt to influence laws by pressuring members of those organizations as it is for those who deny God to influence laws that oppress those of faith.

    For those of faith, especially the Christian faith, we should be more in tune with how Jesus Christ handled what government does and give that which belongs to Caesar to Caesar.

    If politicians of any theological faith allow their chosen religious organizations to dictate how those politicians vote, I will never again vote for any politician with any theological conviction. THAT!....is seperation of church and state.

    If Catholics want to save those who commit illegal acts against the state by coming into the U.S. illegally, they can sure as hell go to Mexico and Canada and take care of those illegal immigrants outside of the U.S.
    On this Robo, you and I are in agreement.

    Spreading the Gospel of Christ has nothing to do with getting involved in politics.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
    Posts
    12,439
    The First Amendment applies to every person, corporation, organization, religion, church, etc. rather you or I like it or not.

    I want all immigration stopped legal or illegal unless they bring money and are not Muslims, preferably Christians from Europe as opposed to Muslims from Europe. Thank you very much

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,766
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    If government enacts laws because a religious organization dictates to politicians of that religion to do so, the state most certainly is supporting church. I realize the fine line here. It is despicable of the Catholic Church to even attempt to dictate state policy.

    With such a non-defined subject as the intent of the constitutions reason for mentioning a seperation of church and state, how you see it in detail is no more valid than how I see it. So stop trying to make it sound like you or understand something that others don't. It is the non-descript way seperation of church and state is stated in the constitution that has allowed for the problems that anti-theological organizations have caused for those of us of faith.

    If the Catholic Churce wants to preach to Catholics to work together to change immigration laws, that is one thing. To go directly to Catholic politicians and tell them to change immigration laws is despicable. It may not be illegal, and it may be the right of the Catholic Church to do it, but it is still no less despicable than how anti-theological organizations have acted.
    And IMO here is an example of the difference between the Spirit and letter of the law.

    The Spirit is the intent, the letter is babbling with definitions and spin.

    IMO the INTENT is what is of importance.

    Example: The intent of 'shall not be infringed' is clear as sunshine... unless one is a lawyer polecat who thinks they are above the law and can change it by spinning the words.
    The intent was: NO (end of discussion)... in GA's opinion: NO, PERIOD. Now what is sooo hard to understand about intent?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
    Posts
    12,439
    I want to make it crystal clear I get angry when I hear the RC church backs illegals or any other liberal left wing socialist cause. Makes me sick but there is absolutely nothing we can constitutionally do about that.

    I agree with your post robot. I can't stand it either. Not aware of them pressuring politicians. So I'll back off here. I guess we can at least vent about it. Thank you very much

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,924
    In this day and age I believe organized religion has a very small effect on politicians and people in general. Sure there will be some ultra religious people that will only want to vote for someone who seems very religious but if anything that would usually lead to an unelectable candidate like Santorum. Also as Glenn mentioned the Church has some views that are obviously ultra conservative but also some that are ultra liberal and its hard to even imagine a candidate being able to fit that mold. The religious right does have a lot of leverage in the primary process but that can make it harder for the pubs to field an electable candidate in the actual election. Romney took a beating in the primaries from the religious right and I believe if he didn't would be president today.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    I don't view churches or religious organizations as any different than unions or corporations for example. They all attempt to influence political leaders. That is how the system works. You and I have a vote and organizations also enlist their members and work to influence congress. They are all the same. I am a member of the NRA and I want them to represent me and influence congress. I don't see any difference between the NRA influencing congress than the unions or the Catholic Church.
    I know you are an intelligent person, so I must assume there is something going on in your head that you are not comprehending what I am posting. I am not disputing any rights or any legalities. I am simply stating that it is despicable for any religious organization in the U.S. to attempt to dictate law by using that religions theological beliefs. In this case, it goes completely against the teachings of Jesus Christ and reeks of the stink of the RCC from earlier times.

    Does Jesus Christ not teach us that just because it is legal to do something that it may still not be right to do a thing? Hell, Hebrew National commercials teach us that much.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    This is all old news.....organized religion and politics have been synonymous for centuries. The Catholic church even backed the 3rd Reich.
    So, because this has been done in the past, it is ok for it to be done now? You know that child molestation has been going on since the beginning of mankind. At times in certain places, child molestation was even legal and considered moral. So, are you saying that since child molestation is nothing new that we should not be concerned with it going on today?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    The First Amendment applies to every person, corporation, organization, religion, church, etc. rather you or I like it or not.

    I want all immigration stopped legal or illegal unless they bring money and are not Muslims, preferably Christians from Europe as opposed to Muslims from Europe. Thank you very much
    So, are you saying that you support the RCC in pushing government to allow millions of illegal immigrants to be treated as citizens? Because...that's what it sounds like you are stating.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    I want to make it crystal clear I get angry when I hear the RC church backs illegals or any other liberal left wing socialist cause. Makes me sick but there is absolutely nothing we can constitutionally do about that.

    I agree with your post robot. I can't stand it either. Not aware of them pressuring politicians. So I'll back off here. I guess we can at least vent about it. Thank you very much
    OK, then. I retract my last comment that was based on your previous comment which I commented on before reading this comment. (Try saying that after a few drinks...)

    Yes, I am all for the freedom of speech. I am simply stating that it is despicable for an organization to use God as a political tool. I have more respect for organized labor using the threat of violence than I do organized religion using God's will in such a manner.

    And, Glenn, I did post a link to the article that my comments are based on. Saying you are not aware of the RCC pressuring Catholic politicians tells me that you didn't bother to read the article that this thread is based on.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    In this day and age I believe organized religion has a very small effect on politicians and people in general. Sure there will be some ultra religious people that will only want to vote for someone who seems very religious but if anything that would usually lead to an unelectable candidate like Santorum. Also as Glenn mentioned the Church has some views that are obviously ultra conservative but also some that are ultra liberal and its hard to even imagine a candidate being able to fit that mold. The religious right does have a lot of leverage in the primary process but that can make it harder for the pubs to field an electable candidate in the actual election. Romney took a beating in the primaries from the religious right and I believe if he didn't would be president today.
    For those of us who are old enough to remember there being a concern over JFK being a Catholic; this is the reason people were concerned.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event