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  1. #1

    York vs. Carrier???

    Hey there! I'm still working on updating my HVAC system! 2100 sq ft split entry in metro area of Twin Cities!! Current system Armstrong 92.5% 67k btu, 2 ton Concept 10! Both 11 years old! Both still operational but not keeping my family comfortable! Main problem is short Cycling both in summer and winter at design temps. Summer time no matter the temp outside my 2 ton cycles. I've been researching my options for over a year now and have had multiple quotes on equipment that will satisfy my family's needs and still don't know who to trust/believe. My main problem is finding a contractor to do manual J and Downsize my equipment! I am 100% sure a 40-45k 95-98% afue and 1.5 ton AC will keep us more comfortable after all the short cycling I've experienced even at -15 and 95+ out door temp. I've been looking online at equipment you all recommend and it sounds like you all like York LX series and Carriers! Any recommendations on getting contractors to down size? Thank You!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,158
    Dealers are scared to downsize. You'll have to beat them bloody to get them to do it. Most like to upsize. Like the guy I saw today where a 60K 92% did great for 17 years. Now he has a 90K 95% with oversized blower for the size of his A/C. And his 3 ton 2 stage A/C wired only for low was running 50% duty on a sauna of a day! So you are right to want properly sized equipment.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,986
    Comfy in MN: Main problem is short Cycling both in summer and winter at design temps.
    The short cycling could be due to Supply Air blowing toward the thermostat, or some other problem other than oversizing.
    If the off-time is real short, then there is a problem in need of diagnosis.

    I addressed this problem in a recent post; click my image & look for that post; I don't like doing repeated typing...

    Are you setting the RM-TH on AUTO or ON?

    The Twin Cities in MN can get hot for usually brief times & not very often.
    I'd size to allow some increase in indoor temp up to 80F, as long as humidity is pulled down, during those brief peak load times.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,692
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Dealers are scared to downsize. You'll have to beat them bloody to get them to do it. Most like to upsize. Like the guy I saw today where a 60K 92% did great for 17 years. Now he has a 90K 95% with oversized blower for the size of his A/C. And his 3 ton 2 stage A/C wired only for low was running 50% duty on a sauna of a day! So you are right to want properly sized equipment.
    X2

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,692
    Quote Originally Posted by udarrell View Post
    The short cycling could be due to Supply Air blowing toward the thermostat, or some other problem other than oversizing.
    If the off-time is real short, then there is a problem in need of diagnosis.

    I addressed this problem in a recent post; click my image & look for that post; I don't like doing repeated typing...

    Are you setting the RM-TH on AUTO or ON?

    The Twin Cities in MN can get hot for usually brief times & not very often.
    I'd size to allow some increase in indoor temp up to 80F, as long as humidity is pulled down, during those brief peak load times.
    X2

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,692
    I agree with Udarrell.........if your sq. ft. is correct, the 2 ton shouldn't be short cycling so badly. It could be a ductwork (airflow) issue.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,013
    The existing system isn't keeping your family comfortable. A better and more detailed description of why other than "because the system short cycles" would go a long ways towards #1) possibly getting more detailed answers here #2) supplying solid information to the contractors for them to have some confidence in putting their install on the line.

    Comfort in our business is a perception. What you perceive as comfortable verses what a contractor will assume will give you comfort can sometimes be miles apart. Yes, doing load calculations can indicate the size equipment etc. to install..... problem is the thermostat is the only entity that will be guaranteed to be 100% happy 100% of the time............. because it's just a fancy switch. A contractor/salesman has to factor in other things that fall under the category of covering their backsides.

    If you're convinced of the sizes you need, present those who you've talked with your own proposal stating the equipment you're requesting them to bid. Make sure there is wording in the proposal that relieves them of any and all responsibilities if what you had them install somehow does not perform to your expectations. Commercial/engineered jobs are done this way all the time with the contractor being held "mainly" responsible for making sure the installation was done to contract and manufacturer's specifications.

    Just a thought.
    Use the biggest hammer you like, pounding a square peg into a round hole does not equal a proper fit.

  8. #8
    Thanks for all the responses. I understand the contractors wanting to cover their rears on down sizing. This weekend I was at my moms house and she had her thermostat set to 77*, it felt more comfortable than my house which is set to 74*. Her house is 500 more sq ft with the whole upstairs vaulted running a 2.5 ton. I also noticed it never shut off (very warm up here now) so my thinking is if I get a 1.5 ton I could raise the indoor temp and be just as comfortable. Is my thinking way off or over analyzing the whole thing?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,986
    I would want an accurate as possible Load-calc before I decided on going down to the 1.5-Ton.
    No two houses are alike or can be compared to each other as there are too many factors to be put into the load-calc equation.

    However, your reasoning is quite correct concerning the comfort the 2.5-Ton produces in the other home.

    There appears to be many things wrong with your 2-Ton system that need correcting, before it can be enabled to deliver the comfort level you require.

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