Page 30 of 34 FirstFirst ... 20232425262728293031323334 LastLast
Results 378 to 390 of 438
  1. #378
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,527
    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    Truth is, I'll go to bat for anyone that has to defend themselves from bodily harm, or a threat of deadly force. He just used the tool at hand. It could have been a knife,a rock,a shovel, a baseball bat, whatever it takes to defend yourself.
    Pro-gun people want to believe Zimmerman's version because it makes the shooting cut and dry legal. However it may not have gone down that way. It's as though Zimmerman's version is the only plausible scenario. I don't live within that box.

    As stated before, if Martin saw Zimmerman's gun before or during the scuffle he was within his rights to beat Zimmerman unconscious or take the gun away from him. Whichever came first. But as usual, no pro-gun person here will respond to that statement.

  2. #379
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,962
    The use of a firearm, just like the use of any other lethal weapon or force, needs to judged on the specific circumstances surrounding that use thereof.

    Besides going against the 2nd Amendment, gun control is a slippery slope to overall control of the population. If we want to turn American citizens into U.S. government subjects, we need only follow the examples of how Communist countries utilize gun controls to do so. China has excellent gun controls. Maybe those who believe citizens should not be allowed 2nd Amendment rights should consider moving to China.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #380
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,874
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Pro-gun people want to believe Zimmerman's version because it makes the shooting cut and dry legal. However it may not have gone down that way. It's as though Zimmerman's version is the only plausible scenario. I don't live within that box.

    As stated before, if Martin saw Zimmerman's gun before or during the scuffle he was within his rights to beat Zimmerman unconscious or take the gun away from him. Whichever came first. But as usual, no pro-gun person here will respond to that statement.
    If you honestly believe that, then all you have to do is read the State Of Florida use of deadly force statutes.You might have a hard time spinning the letter of the law. Or, maybe you just don't want to understand. I guess the jurors understood. You could too if you really wanted to. None of my business either way.

  4. #381
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,225
    This thread should have been re-titled: "Should Martin have waited on police?"

    The facts that came out of this trial prove the exact opposite of what we were fed from day 1: The facts are that it was Martin-not Zimmerman, who initiated the altercation. It was Martin who was the racist. It was Martin who went after Zimmerman in an incident of gay bashing because he and his intellectual girlfriend on the phone together decided Zimmerman was a gay rapist. Martin was standing in front of his house and went to find and confront Zimmerman. While there is ample suspicion that Martin may have been jacked up a little bit on some homemade concoction, we know he was a punk who had a history of violence, MMA-style fighting outside of organized ring fights, during which he had recently lost twice and was looking for retribution and in general had a nasty chip on this shoulder. In fact, we learned outside of the trial that the reason Trayvon was at that development that day (which explains why Zimmerman did not recognize him) was that pure innocent Trayvon had been thrown out of school for 10 days starting that very morning for punching (read-assault and battery) a school bus driver. This kid was looking for trouble and found it.

    Now, if you want to come up with alternative scenarios that would have kept Zimmerman and Martin from crossing paths, let me offer a few:
    -Martin should have been sitting in jail awaiting arraignment for assault and battery (or selling pot in school from previous offenses)
    -Martin should have been at his regular home away from this development if he had behaved properly earlier that day or the day before
    -Martin could have been sitting in his dad's home as Zimmerman walked the sidewalk out back
    -Martin could have confronted Zimmerman in a civil manner without threat or actual violence and inquired why Zimmerman was apparently following him and who Zimmerman was, to which Zimmerman could have had the chance to explain without Martin smashing his face in.

    You'll never hear those versions on the national news media because the media, the POTUS, the AG, and the race baiters all stand to lose if this truth comes out. Martin caused this unfortunate incident. What I am still waiting to hear from these supposed "leaders" is the message to our youth, but especially the black youth since it was THEY who made this about race just this:
    -keep your nose clean and don't do stupid stuff that gets you into fights or thrown out of school
    -don't commit assault and battery on anyone
    -don't hang around with people dumber than a brick who seek only to drag you down to their level
    -when confronted with someone watching you and following you in a non-threatening manner, call 911 as you seek shelter preferably in a public place or home.
    -when confronted with someone watching you or following you, never turn and confront them face to face, whether with the support of a group or alone, whether in a busy public place or a quiet remote place. Just don't do it!
    -When hanging out in a nicer neighborhood, such as a gated community, don't be surprised if you find yourself on camera or being surveiled by locals or a security service.
    -When you dress in a manner similar to local thugs, don't be surprised if you get stopped and questioned by police or private security or watched closely by them. While you have the right to dress freely within the laws of decency, they have the right to watch whomever they want in public and that is NOT profiling nor is it a violation of your rights. It is a protection of theirs.
    -If you find yourself in an altercation or threatened altercation where you see or suspect the other guy has a gun, you don't charge into them--you run like h@ll the other way!
    -If you think you might find yourself in compromising circumstances where a thug may pull a gun on you, first re-assess why you are there in the first place and is it really necessary. It is truly is necessary to be there at that point and time, I would caution to do so only if you can legally carry a concealed weapon yourself and have received training in its proper use and application.
    -In general, running is always better than fighting. Fight only defensively when backed into a corner with no escape. Fight to win.
    -In general, always assume the other guy is not only armed but he is better armed than you and more importantly crazy enough to kill you at the blink of an eye. If Martin had considered this single point, just as with the rest I've posted, we wouldn't even know his name. Trayvon Martin's poor choices caused his death. Not just one poor choice but a pattern of bad choices. Why isn't THAT being discussed instead of all this racist cr@p?

  5. #382
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Dacula, GA
    Posts
    12,725
    You expreused my feelings exactly hearth. Thank you very much

  6. #383
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    18,065
    Excellent hearth, you're missing your calling as a judge.
    To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
    -- Confucius

  7. #384
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Desert Southwest
    Posts
    690
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I just read where LP tanks in Orlando have exploded and the first thing that came to mind was that Zimmerman has found a better way to cause a more violent outcome without having to expose himself to public scrutiny.

    I'm telling you guys, Zimmerman either needs to seriously find God or sent back to God for readjustments.
    Sounds like the forklift driver has some explaining to do.
    If you can't fix it with JB Weld, Duct Tape, and Ty Wire it has to be replaced.
    No good deed goes unpunished.
    If you want to take off friday to go fishing then make sure you train your helper right.

  8. #385
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,251
    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    5:59 am...... Id dig trayvons corpse up and tie it to a tree with one of those rainbow clown wigs on his head for a cheeseburger right now....

    Just a bun...toasted... some meat and cheese and just a splattering of mayo and ketchup......

    and some immodium ad cause Ive got the splats this morning....... but Im also starving.

    Couldnt eat last night cause my stomach hurt and I got sorta sick feeling while weedeating.....so I had to quit that.... and I ran out of string....Ive got some but I didnt feel like putting it on and continuing to weedeat.

    Trayvons physical body means nothing anymore..... his spirit has been called up to that waiting room.....or its still in him waiting.... till judgement day rolls around...... but still.... his body is no longer needed....

    Im not sure but I fiqure your spirit leaves you when you die and goes to the waiting area for judgement day. I know bible tracts show the spirits rising from the graveyards when judgement day comes..... but I dont believe you sit there in your rotting corpse and wait....... I think you go somewhere else to wait it out.

    While heaven and hell exist...... I dont think anyone is there now......unless they are just caretakers..... they will not be filled until judgement day.

    So right now most folks are in that waiting room....... but it is probably segregated with most folks in some kind of iffy area awaiting judgement but folks like Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin.... politicians, TV preachers and child molesters being all held in a roped off area cause these folks are pretty much already known to be going to hell...... but they still cant be sent there till an official sentance is passed down.

    Tray is in that regular waiting area.... with petty criminals...good folks...... normal folks..... He isnt a monster like the people like the people who are segregated into that special area...... but he still could end up in hell.....depending on what they got on him.
    ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Vintage Corney material
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  9. #386
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,527
    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    If you honestly believe that, then all you have to do is read the State Of Florida use of deadly force statutes.You might have a hard time spinning the letter of the law. Or, maybe you just don't want to understand. I guess the jurors understood. You could too if you really wanted to. None of my business either way.
    What I 'honestly believe' is that the jury made the right decision based on the fact that they only have one story to go by... and conveniently it is Zimmerman's - the liar. Is that what I do not understand?

    And just as suspected, you failed to respond to my second point which was - if Zimmerman showed his gun, Martin would be within his rights to beat his a$$. But I understand. The downsides of toting guns is rarely discussed here.

  10. #387
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,874
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    What I 'honestly believe' is that the jury made the right decision based on the fact that they only have one story to go by... and conveniently it is Zimmerman's - the liar. Is that what I do not understand?

    And just as suspected, you failed to respond to my second point which was - if Zimmerman showed his gun, Martin would be within his rights to beat his a$$. But I understand. The downsides of toting guns is rarely discussed here.
    Well, if Zimbo brandished a weapon at me, and I was unarmed, I'd run.
    There's an old saying, never bring a knife to a gun fight.
    I've not carried concealed, and I've carried concealed. I prefer to carry. You on the other hand I assume, have never carried, so you only have one side to make your decision on. Again, I'm not trying to change your mind on the use firearms.

  11. #388
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Pro-gun people want to believe Zimmerman's version because it makes the shooting cut and dry legal. However it may not have gone down that way. It's as though Zimmerman's version is the only plausible scenario. I don't live within that box.

    As stated before, if Martin saw Zimmerman's gun before or during the scuffle he was within his rights to beat Zimmerman unconscious or take the gun away from him. Whichever came first. But as usual, no pro-gun person here will respond to that statement.
    I am pro gun, and I have repeatedly done so on the zim/martin threads. Martin could have been justified in attacking Zim under a number of circumstances:

    1-Zim could have been violently aggressive. Zim brandished a weapon. At close range, an attack is far more sensible than a shot in the back.

    Step it down a notch...

    2-Zim could have been violently aggressive without the gun involved. Zim could have grabbed martin physically to question him. Justifiable moment to start throwing punches.

    Step it down another notch...

    3-Zim could have been verbally aggressive, and said something like " who are you, you f'n punk and what are you doing here?... I am talking to you boy and I expect an answer". I think thaty would be justification for rushing zim and start punching. My opinion and I am sticking to it. I am probably not following the letter of the law here, but I figure that would be justified by any common sense. A good offense is the best defense. Period. Martin would be justified ,.. in that scenario in my opinion.

    Step it down yet ANOTHER notch....

    4-Zim could have simply invaded martin's 'personal space'. Whatever that is. Zim could have invaded martin's personal space and been as nice as a feather pillow and still be inviting a punch. This one is really hard to define, 'personal space'. It cannot be measured in inches. It is circumstantial, such as day/night or male/female or good hood/bad hood or whether it is two strangers alone/other people around [or justified profiling in my opinion]. It is also geographical, such as whether you are on an open street close to home or in a corner. It is also personal, as it depends upon your 'Depends product' factor and personal issues. A woman who has been previously raped probably has a massive personal space requirement I would guess. Rural folks have a vastly larger personal space requirement than city folks who are used to being packed like sardines. I may not be able to clearly define what involves a 'personal space invasion', but that is probably not hard to do on a dark street at night with nobody else around. I am doubtful that would justify starting to throw punches, but I would be willing to consider it because the particular circumstances could be vastly different.

    I present all of this in support of Martin, they are just possible scenarios. No evidence though, just possible scenarios where there is no proof whatsoever. So, when you go to criminally convict Zim on a charge he has to be guilty 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. There is an abundance of doubt. Not guilty. Legally, a conviction would have been a miscarriage of justice in my opinion.

    What really happened in my opinion? I figure Zim was in the right by all standing evidence. And an idiot. Reminds me of a romantic tale of 'two ships passing in the night'. There was a song about that. I think. But here we have 'two idiots passing in the night, one dead". LOL.

    Zimmerman is an idiot. After all of this mess he was in, he got involved in pulling a family from a burning car wreck. He had a fire extinguisher. Wanna-be cop/fireman/paramedic. Gun/fire-extinguisher/probably a first aid kit. I would bet the farm he has a first aid kit, I am certain. Thank God for no body was recovered with a broken neck, it would have resulted in riots. He is a pro-active community oriented type of guy, if not very smart, maybe we need more like him.

    If I was him, I would have driven past the car wreck and pretended not to see it. Seriously, if I was Zimmerman. I would not want the attention. I am quite serious..... We had a drought in my area before. I called 911 to report a road-side fire maybe about 8 in the morning in one county. And dammed if there wasn't ANOTHER roadside fire that afternoon in the neighboring county. I instinctively reached for my phone to call 911, then thought 'screw that, let someone else call this one in'. My thinking at the time was that I did not want to be associated with the fires in the sense that someone may 'connect the dots' and figure I was setting them. F that!! Was I being cowardly or paranoid? I am not asking for you to answer that, I will answer myself that I was being both cowardly and paranoid. I am not a Zimmerman type, highly unlikely I would ever be involved in the type of trouble he is in.

    If your car is on fire and you are trapped inside... who would you prefer to drive by????

    Zimmerman Martin Tool-slinger. I would prefer Zimmerman without a doubt.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  12. #389
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,251
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I just read where LP tanks in Orlando have exploded and the first thing that came to mind was that Zimmerman has found a better way to cause a more violent outcome without having to expose himself to public scrutiny.

    I'm telling you guys, Zimmerman either needs to seriously find God or sent back to God for readjustments.
    Zimmerman recently helped rescue a family of 4 from a burning car crash. Soooo..
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  13. #390
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,527
    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I am pro gun, and I have repeatedly done so on the zim/martin threads. Martin could have been justified in attacking Zim under a number of circumstances:

    1-Zim could have been violently aggressive. Zim brandished a weapon. At close range, an attack is far more sensible than a shot in the back.

    Step it down a notch...

    2-Zim could have been violently aggressive without the gun involved. Zim could have grabbed martin physically to question him. Justifiable moment to start throwing punches.

    Step it down another notch...

    3-Zim could have been verbally aggressive, and said something like " who are you, you f'n punk and what are you doing here?... I am talking to you boy and I expect an answer". I think thaty would be justification for rushing zim and start punching. My opinion and I am sticking to it. I am probably not following the letter of the law here, but I figure that would be justified by any common sense. A good offense is the best defense. Period. Martin would be justified ,.. in that scenario in my opinion.

    Step it down yet ANOTHER notch....

    4-Zim could have simply invaded martin's 'personal space'. Whatever that is. Zim could have invaded martin's personal space and been as nice as a feather pillow and still be inviting a punch. This one is really hard to define, 'personal space'. It cannot be measured in inches. It is circumstantial, such as day/night or male/female or good hood/bad hood or whether it is two strangers alone/other people around [or justified profiling in my opinion]. It is also geographical, such as whether you are on an open street close to home or in a corner. It is also personal, as it depends upon your 'Depends product' factor and personal issues. A woman who has been previously raped probably has a massive personal space requirement I would guess. Rural folks have a vastly larger personal space requirement than city folks who are used to being packed like sardines. I may not be able to clearly define what involves a 'personal space invasion', but that is probably not hard to do on a dark street at night with nobody else around. I am doubtful that would justify starting to throw punches, but I would be willing to consider it because the particular circumstances could be vastly different.

    I present all of this in support of Martin, they are just possible scenarios. No evidence though, just possible scenarios where there is no proof whatsoever. So, when you go to criminally convict Zim on a charge he has to be guilty 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. There is an abundance of doubt. Not guilty. Legally, a conviction would have been a miscarriage of justice in my opinion.

    What really happened in my opinion? I figure Zim was in the right by all standing evidence. And an idiot. Reminds me of a romantic tale of 'two ships passing in the night'. There was a song about that. I think. But here we have 'two idiots passing in the night, one dead". LOL.

    Zimmerman is an idiot. After all of this mess he was in, he got involved in pulling a family from a burning car wreck. He had a fire extinguisher. Wanna-be cop/fireman/paramedic. Gun/fire-extinguisher/probably a first aid kit. I would bet the farm he has a first aid kit, I am certain. Thank God for no body was recovered with a broken neck, it would have resulted in riots. He is a pro-active community oriented type of guy, if not very smart, maybe we need more like him.

    If I was him, I would have driven past the car wreck and pretended not to see it. Seriously, if I was Zimmerman. I would not want the attention. I am quite serious..... We had a drought in my area before. I called 911 to report a road-side fire maybe about 8 in the morning in one county. And dammed if there wasn't ANOTHER roadside fire that afternoon in the neighboring county. I instinctively reached for my phone to call 911, then thought 'screw that, let someone else call this one in'. My thinking at the time was that I did not want to be associated with the fires in the sense that someone may 'connect the dots' and figure I was setting them. F that!! Was I being cowardly or paranoid? I am not asking for you to answer that, I will answer myself that I was being both cowardly and paranoid. I am not a Zimmerman type, highly unlikely I would ever be involved in the type of trouble he is in.

    If your car is on fire and you are trapped inside... who would you prefer to drive by????

    Zimmerman Martin Tool-slinger. I would prefer Zimmerman without a doubt.
    Very good, well balanced, well thought through post. I enjoyed reading it.

Page 30 of 34 FirstFirst ... 20232425262728293031323334 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event