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  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by viceman View Post
    i bet that 99% of the members on this board have vented refer. i would also bet that only 1% would ever admit it.
    I bet you're right.

  2. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by viceman View Post
    i bet that 99% of the members on this board have vented refer. i would also bet that only 1% would ever admit it.
    Before recovery was mandated, everyone vented refrigerant.

    The new evap coils vent refrigerant. Should we fine the manufacturer? Nope.




    In fact, de minimis venting IS permitted. The EPA realized they could never prohibit ALL venting, because no one would pay for the time and money it would take to prevent all venting.

    Imagine finding a leaking coil in summer, and having to shut down the system for a week in hot weather while the back ordered coil is shipped.

    Even the EPA realized there would be a revolt in the retail industry if they did now allow for dry condensers to be installed in place of changing every split system in every shopping building over to a new 410a system.

    I like recovering refrigerant now. It saves money for our company and adds value to the invoice. Of course, like all government mandates, it's the consumer who pays all costs.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  3. #42
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    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by walden.raccoon View Post
    If you worked before the clean air act then it's almost 100% certain you would have vented refrigerant
    And what may be the best refrigerant ever compounded was inexpensive and plentiful, too.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  4. #43
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    May 2011
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    Western, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by penderway View Post

    To the OP and others, using over the top, descriptive language like "unspeakable horror" and "be a punk" can and will cause flaming. Although it's sometimes entertaining, IMO it's generally not helpful or informative.
    I'm going to disagree with you there penderway, calling people out on there behavior may not be informative but it can make positive changes. It may not always work but when it does it's very helpful for getting someone on track and helping them see the bigger picture, call it intuition but I thought it would be helpful, the OP seems to have morals and ethics that could serve him well, just has to apply them correctly.

    One of the most important parts of our jobs, if you want a long successful career, is handling various personalities and situations, you have to keep your emotions, language and actions within an acceptable level to do that.

    The OP has recognized that he was overblowing it, it's totally cool with me to come on this site and vent, ask for help on how to analyze the best course of action in a situation, I've done the exact same thing on this site as well. That's why I didn't "harp" on the negative parts and listed helpful information as well in my responses.

    By the end of the thread I think the OP will have a lot of good information and will be better prepared than before.

  5. #44
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    You need to chill, rapeing and murdering a child is an unthinkable horror, the holocaust is an unthinkable horror, venting refrigerant is a slap on the hand kind of offense, repeated venting just because you don't care warrants a fine in my opinion and maybe some required education hours.

    Don't be a punk, I hope the worst thing you see in this industry is venting refrigerant, the things you really need to watch out for are the life threatening cases of negligence or the criminals looking to take advantage of customers or even the company they work for.
    Agreed.

    This is the perspective I'm trying to impart to this kid. There is an array of things that are far worse than some R22 entering the atmosphere at the hands of a lazy tech.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  6. #45
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    Aug 2001
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    Mechanicsville, Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    I'm going to disagree with you there penderway, calling people out on there behavior may not be informative but it can make positive changes. It may not always work but when it does it's very helpful for getting someone on track and helping them see the bigger picture, call it intuition but I thought it would be helpful, the OP seems to have morals and ethics that could serve him well, just has to apply them correctly.

    One of the most important parts of our jobs, if you want a long successful career, is handling various personalities and situations, you have to keep your emotions, language and actions within an acceptable level to do that.

    The OP has recognized that he was overblowing it, it's totally cool with me to come on this site and vent, ask for help on how to analyze the best course of action in a situation, I've done the exact same thing on this site as well. That's why I didn't "harp" on the negative parts and listed helpful information as well in my responses.

    By the end of the thread I think the OP will have a lot of good information and will be better prepared than before.
    You both make good points, all is well with me.
    "Wayne's Brain Challenge" is now $50.00

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  7. #46
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by walden.raccoon View Post
    The unit I helped change out was a 30 year old Carrier round condenser with one of those bristle coil things and a load of decaying wire (we replaced the whip)....when I opened the disconnect after shutting it off I noticed there was no ground bonded to the case of the disconnect switch, now that would be something more life-threatening if left unaddressed. this is at a preschool with kids running around too..
    Actually, upgrading to current (no pun intended) electrical standards makes much more sense than worrying about a puff of gas being released.

    I'll bet little to none of the NEC was covered in your schooling. For example, do you know that article 440 (which covers condensing units) allows for ground fault/overcurrent devices to be sized much larger than the conductor's rated ampacity? It's because the overloads in the motors and compressors are what protects the conductors, and the ground fault/overcurrent devices can be upsized to 225% of fla totals to allow the compressor to start without tripping the breaker or opening the fuses.

    AND, you can run sealtite to any length you want, IF you include an equipment grounding conductor, properly sized. If you are relying on the metal in the sealtite to act as your EGC, your limit is 6 feet.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by walden.raccoon View Post
    It's the almost 40000$ fine and possible jail time and epa certification revocation I'm worried about here, sure i care about the planet and all that though my primary concern with the epa is staying out of trouble. That's why venting is an unthinkable/unspeakable horror, at least in my eyes.
    Just a word of advice, if I where you, I would relax a little.

    You sound pretty well versed on section 608, what percentage of technicians out there do you think follow or even know the minimum level of evacuation when you recover (ie 10" for r22 over 200lbs, 10" for high pressure under 200lbs, 15" high pressure over 200lbs). Obviously breaking the law is breaking the law. However there are all kinds of people in this world you will meet that don't have very high standards.

    My advice to the OP is try and do what's right, but no matter how hard you try you're not going to get the rest of the world to follow. Just do what you think is right, and don't lose any sleep over it.

    By the way I'm not advocating for venting refrigerant. I work for a large company that's anal about these kinds of things, so I pretty much have to follow the rules to the letter.

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Agreed.

    This is the perspective I'm trying to impart to this kid. There are plenty of things that are far worse than r22 entering the atmosphere at the hands of a lazy tech.
    Yeah like using a broken nitrogen regulator just 5 feet away from children on the other side of a chain link fence...that's far worse than releasing r22 into the air. I told the kids to play on the other side of the day care playground Because this lazy tech i worked with just abuses all his tools including high pressure cylinders and regulator, one time he nearly blew out my gauges because the regulator is always on 300+ psi, never letting him use my gauges again. No wonder his suction gauge was toast!

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Memphis
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    2,502
    Quote Originally Posted by viceman View Post
    i bet that 99% of the members on this board have vented refer. i would also bet that only 1% would ever admit it.
    Agreed, just like the majority here probably don't pull EVERY single system down to 500 microns and watches it for a bit to make sure it doesn't rise any.
    Life is like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today might burn your ass tomorrow.

  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Actually, upgrading to current (no pun intended) electrical standards makes much more sense than worrying about a puff of gas being released.

    I'll bet little to none of the NEC was covered in your schooling. For example, do you know that article 440 (which covers condensing units) allows for ground fault/overcurrent devices to be sized much larger than the conductor's rated ampacity? It's because the overloads in the motors and compressors are what protects the conductors, and the ground fault/overcurrent devices can be upsized to 225% of fla totals to allow the compressor to start without tripping the breaker or opening the fuses.

    AND, you can run sealtite to any length you want, IF you include an equipment grounding conductor, properly sized. If you are relying on the metal in the sealtite to act as your EGC, your limit is 6 feet.
    Interesting!i always thought fuses and breakers had the option of a time delay/slow blow to prevent blowing or tripping on locked rotor, I'm still learning things though

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
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    7,098
    I can't keep my nitro guages unbroken, I take the regulator off every time I use it and the regulated pressure side is still busted. The regulator itself is fine but the guages ALWAYS get bummed up no matter how careful I try to be.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
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    4,381
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    I can't keep my nitro guages unbroken, I take the regulator off every time I use it and the regulated pressure side is still busted. The regulator itself is fine but the guages ALWAYS get bummed up no matter how careful I try to be.
    I figured that just came with the territory of owning one. I get all excited when I replace them and they look nice and new. That doesn't last long . . .

    Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk 2

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