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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    215
    I'm from Canada, what does the EPA cert entail?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    215
    We have to do a 4,500 hour apprenticeship for residential A/C, 9,000 hour for comercial refrigeration, write the exam, Do a course on ozone depletion every 5 years, heat load calc certification, duct design certification, gas fitter certification which is a mix of theory, practical, and exams, Oil burner mechanic, just to name a few.. there is a course, fee, exam, certificate for pretty much everything you do, here in Ontario anyways. Money money money.. but people are held more liable which is a good thing.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Mechanicsville, Virginia
    Posts
    1,096
    Quote Originally Posted by RACMT View Post
    I'm from Canada, what does the EPA cert entail?
    At minimum It certifies that you understand the laws pertaining to handling refrigerants. At it's most, it certifies that you understand how recovering said refrigerants could freeze the water tubes of a chiller.

    "If perfection is your goal, you may end up with good enough, what might you end up with when good enough is your goal?"
    Wayne Pendergast, efficientcomfort.net

  4. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RACMT View Post
    We have to do a 4,500 hour apprenticeship for residential A/C, 9,000 hour for comercial refrigeration, write the exam, Do course on ozone depletion every 5 years, heat load calc certification, duct design certification, gas fitter certification which is a mix of theory, practical, and exams, Oil burner mechanic, just to name a few.. there is a course, fee, exam, certificate for pretty much everything you do, here in Ontario anyways. Money money money.. but people are held more liable which is a good thing.
    Although Canada has an expensive way of doing it, it is the way more places In the USA need to go. Here in Massachusetts a license is required for working on a system 10 tons and over (two 5 ton compressors in a unit counts as 10 tons)

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Mechanicsville, Virginia
    Posts
    1,096
    Quote Originally Posted by RACMT View Post
    We have to do a 4,500 hour apprenticeship for residential A/C, 9,000 hour for comercial refrigeration, write the exam, Do a course on ozone depletion every 5 years, heat load calc certification, duct design certification, gas fitter certification which is a mix of theory, practical, and exams, Oil burner mechanic, just to name a few.. there is a course, fee, exam, certificate for pretty much everything you do, here in Ontario anyways. Money money money.. but people are held more liable which is a good thing.
    Hairdresser's here in the US are held to similar strict requirements, but of course as far as consumers are concerned, haircuts are more important than heat pumps.

    "If perfection is your goal, you may end up with good enough, what might you end up with when good enough is your goal?"
    Wayne Pendergast, efficientcomfort.net

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    215
    Our residential ticket is 5 ton and less. but its canada our residential cooling loads are way less then you guys, we are pretty much a flip. we have to design our heating system to be between 100%-140% of the heat loss and the A/C is from 80%-125% of heat gain. It is also mandatory for a heat load calc to be done and be completed by a certified HRAI member. I think we have a pretty good system, it just seems like every turn you make theres more fees, I'm not complaining just saying thats all. A lot of companies will hire a bunch of guys that are more so labourers and get them to install and then the certified guy will come and put his cert number on the tag. I guess thats normal every were you go.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Independence, MO
    Posts
    70
    I personally have no tolerance for intentional dumping, though accidents do happen, the problem with any trade is that there are always those few who do not respect the environment. I personally would say to the offender that there are reasons for these "LAWS" and be prepared to take whatever comes your way. I have worked for a person like this before and hated every minute of it. Decided that for myself, that i could not tolerate this kind of behavior so i left that company only to find a better job in the end. For your own peace of mind, don't let those ruin your view of an honorable trade. Some bully their way through life, making those who want to obey the law fearful, but you should follow your conscience. Have courage and do what you need to do for yourself.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,575
    sounds to me like it's new job time!!!

    for financial gain, a video of this practice would do wonders for you.
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  9. #22
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    361
    Personally I don't buy into the whole global warming thing. Do I recover every time? You betchya. I'm an in house guy and R22 comes straight out of the same fund I use to buy tools. I can buy it from the wholesaler at X/lb or I can send off recovery and have it cleaned to ARI 700 for (.25 * X)/lb. Environment be damned or not, that stuff is liquid gold.

    I like your by the books attitude, don't let a loser like that jade you of a rewarding career. Go find a job at a company that wants to do things properly. Bet he didn't have a vacuum pump on the truck either LOL.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Independence, MO
    Posts
    70
    Sounds to me like the company's standard are too low and a new job is in order, too

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    17,006
    I would start looking.

    I never vent like that.

    However...

    I think that calling it "unspeakable" is a gross overstatement.

    In fact, you would have to believe that everything the EPA says is gospel, that there is no possibility that what they say is in any way innaccurate, and that the venting you witnessed will surely have dire consequences for a fragile planet that can be irreparably damaged by man.

    And, I would opine that none of those beliefs would be true and correct.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    2,566
    Quote Originally Posted by walden.raccoon View Post
    No, i felt intimidated by him and walked away, i thought the guy in the van would have the sense to carry the stuff to the job, i drove there in the company pickup truck and had no idea what the other guy had in his van, he had no recovery equipment that's for sure.
    Then the problem is at the top. That's what you should look at with any company, from the top down. As long as ownership and management is solid then one bad apple employee is not a big deal, in that kind of situation for all you know you were hired to get trained up and replace the problem child.

    If you're going to leave, don't just quit and walk out the door, do your best while you're there, try to influence who you can, and shop around for a job stressing that you want to do things the right way.

  13. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    I would start looking.

    I never vent like that.

    However...

    I think that calling it "unspeakable" is a gross overstatement.

    In fact, you would have to believe that everything the EPA says is gospel, that there is no possibility that what they say is in any way innaccurate, and that the venting you witnessed will surely have dire consequences for a fragile planet that can be irreparably damaged by man.

    And, I would opine that none of those beliefs would be true and correct.
    It's the almost 40000$ fine and possible jail time and epa certification revocation I'm worried about here, sure i care about the planet and all that though my primary concern with the epa is staying out of trouble. That's why venting is an unthinkable/unspeakable horror, at least in my eyes.

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