I witnessed the unthinkable (epa violation)

[jtrammel]

I think he's talkin more along the lines of the pressure of the tank propelling the 25# steel cylinder towards the children, not suffocating them.

[lytning]

Remember reading about companys being fined. I think a junk yard was 1 and some demolition company's.
This was in the 90's. A new broom sweeps clean. Then a question would be what harm in venting the new ozone friendly refrigerants? I know in 3 years or so they are going to tell us that we need to change again.
BUT what will we do about the cows farting? Recovery units for menthane ? You I know some farms are using it for running generators. OK off my soap box for now.

There has never ever been a case where the Epa has put away a tech or contractor.

Never fined one either. And noone ever has collected that reward money.

[joey791]

Same here. Its RECOVERY MACHINE, not RECLAIMER.

Don't care what it is anymore, I do controls

[NiHaoMike]

I'm 38 years old and my dad has always worked in HVAC, before reclaimers and cerification, if my bike tires were low, I used R22 to air them up. If the lawnmower tires were low, I used R22 to air them up. If the football or basketball needed air, I used R22 to air them up. Got dirty? We used R22 to blow the dust off. Of course it was hard being a kid with a football that got bigger the more you played with it Just agreeing with TB and some of these old school guys before the certification days.

I remember reading about a prank where they filled a basketball with R11 or something. It stayed nicely inflated while in the car, but bring it inside and it spontaneously goes flat in the middle of a game...

The funny part is, if you can find it, you can still buy and use cans of R22 for powering paintball guns. Not too sure about the purity, though...

[hurtinhvac]

I remember my very first week an old tech needed to get the numbers right on a system before he called it in to the utility co. for a rebate program. In defense of the OP, I was horrified as well as the grass around the unit turned white and froze in about a two foot round area around the manifold hose laying open on the ground; vapor clouding the air. I walked in the basement and busied myself with nothing. I was thinking "this is my first week out, we'll get caught and I'll never work in the field again. What a waste of all that time and money for the education!"

Not too long after that another one let a small (but definately illegal) charge go from a condensing unit. But he was being sneaky about it, in a concealed area and put a rag over it to keep the cloud down. He looked up at me and said" you know this is wrong, right? I just don't feel like grabbing the tank and machine for this little bit..."

The other week it was taking a long time to drain a five ton. I debated getting some wet rags to cool the tank but it got down pretty low...or so I thought. No one was around and I was expecting a little hiss and puff. Karma ended up giving me an oil bath. Stains did not come out in the wash. That one might have actually been legal as I got it under a certain percentage.

I understand, OP; I was there not too long ago. But as the others have instructed: Don't worry about it and certainly do not make waves. And don't be surprised if your hoses come loose now and again down the road; mine do. Damn things.

[Joehvac25]

Last week I had old cond unit I replaced and pumped down. I must have been spaced out because I put my gauges on it later at the shop and it said zero. The way it was laying it looked like it was kicked off the truck. I figured well it got damaged. I got my sawzall out to cut it up, I was cutting the fan wires and nicked the coil and whoosh there she went. The light bulb went off, service valves were shut duh because it was pumped down. Good thing I wasn't near a grade school!

[Mike19]

We do have recovery equipment in the shop and plenty of recovery tanks, but this one guy i was with didn't have it, it's also the law that any service to be done needs to be accompanied with the appropriate recovery equipment. This guy I worked with told me if we overcharge a system by a couple Ounces to a pound we just "purge it out", my heart broke upon hearing that. I might have to find a new company that haS stricter Standard like the ones i follow (Aka the epa regulations). AlsO, this guy never reams or cleans pipe before brazing and doesn't use ppe for the job, he also uses a broken nitro regulator. I'm surprised he's still alive

When you guys change a run capacitor, do you leave the new capacitor in the box and wrap electrical tape around it to protect it as well?

[Mike19]

Last week I had old cond unit I replaced and pumped down. I must have been spaced out because I put my gauges on it later at the shop and it said zero. The way it was laying it looked like it was kicked off the truck. I figured well it got damaged. I got my sawzall out to cut it up, I was cutting the fan wires and nicked the coil and whoosh there she went. The light bulb went off, service valves were shut duh because it was pumped down. Good thing I wasn't near a grade school!

We where taking out an old system a while back, and we had recovered the refrigerant and started to sawzall the copper tubing out. Another guy starting cutting on an insulated pipe which he thought was part of the suction line, and water started spraying out. Oops, that's the water line for the water-cooled condenser.

[Joehvac25]

We where taking out an old system a while back, and we had recovered the refrigerant and started to sawzall the copper tubing out. Another guy starting cutting on an insulated pipe which he thought was part of the suction line, and water started spraying out. Oops, that's the water line for the water-cooled condenser.

Ha ha whoops.

To the op, cool down learn some stuff, always remember you know how to do things right, what it boils down to is work experience, you get that and you have options.

[johnqpublic]

i thought a coke bottle half full of water and a rag on top were approved as a recovery machine because you cant see the gas cloud that way. Of course its been 25 years since i was in school learning about recovery. I started out with a chargeomatic cylinder. I bet the kid would freak seeing one of them things.

[allan38]

Some refrigerant related EPA fines. I think the EPA likes to hunt elephants and whales (the big companies who can pay the fines get hit.) I'm assuming its due to a limited amount of agents and a huge number of companies. Hit the big ones to have the most effect and bring in the most revenue.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/enforce/

[2sac]

http://youtu.be/vQcNEGrjn1M

[Fridge_expert]

i thought a coke bottle half full of water and a rag on top were approved as a recovery machine because you cant see the gas cloud that way. Of course its been 25 years since i was in school learning about recovery. I started out with a chargeomatic cylinder. I bet the kid would freak seeing one of them things.

I've seen the charging cylinders, very old school

[Fridge_expert]

When you guys change a run capacitor, do you leave the new capacitor in the box and wrap electrical tape around it to protect it as well?

I sincerely hope not...the only thing i wrap electrical tape on is my Boot if the sole separated from the upper part

[Chuck]

I sincerely hope not...the only thing i wrap electrical tape on is my Boot if the sole separated from the upper part

Then you look like a hack, you only get one chance to make a good first impression, buy new boots. Always maintain your appearance, your customers will notice and your boss also.

And about the venting refer, you are not in position to complain, nor will you get fined. When you get in your own truck will be soon enough to start doing things right. Meanwhile learn all you can, including how not to do things, from your journeyman and prepare yourself to be a better tech!

[taxman]

Meanwhile learn all you can, including how not to do things, from your journeyman and prepare yourself to be a better tech!

That's a healthy outlook on the situation.

I was thinking OP should look for a trainee position under somebody who could show him the professionalism usually exhibited on this forum, rather than how to make time by cutting corners. But I was really worried about him walking a tightrope between being perceived as so awful that his first employer is pushing him out in his first month on the job, or being perceived as bad-mouthing his current employer if he tells anybody why he is looking for another employer.

When you leave a job in the first month, something's really wrong. When it's the only job you've ever held in the industry, the immediate assumption is that the problem is you.
If you walk into a job interview and bad-mouth your current employer, it's going to discourage the interviewer from wanting to be the next employer you bad-mouth. So you're stuck with the perception that there's something seriously wrong with you, but you run the risk of only making it worse if you try to tell them there's something seriously wrong with your boss.
About the farthest you'd want to go would be to focus on your own professional development, maybe say you were wondering if a different company would be better at showing you how to implement the methods you learned in trade school.

I'd go with Chuck's advice, and consider it 'paying your dues' as you gain skills in your chosen trade.

[deerwhistle]

Remember that this is your career at stake, do not get involved with or sunk by some idiot's version of what is proper procedure. Too many in the hvac/r trade haven't a clue and would happily break any law if it suited them. You will protect your career by protecting the environment. Do not be one of these morons who, if they could read, observe laws only as and if it suits them. You didn't attend school just so some other fool can involve you in his idiocy and burn down your career. You've likely been told already but go to your foreman or supervisor and tell someone what you've seen. Don't be self-righteous about it, simply report what you saw (not some rumor) and let your boss earn his pay. If the boss does nothing make sure your own butt is always covered and privately document everything you've seen, you can add the rumor here. Don't ever forget that a crime may have been committed and that you are now associated with it. If you want to damage the environment, your own health plus everyone else's that is your choice. If you want to lie about this that is your option, you really don't want to get a reputation as one of these idiots that willy-nilly breaks whatever environmental laws he chooses. This will follow you everywhere and you can kiss any respect you may have earned goodbye.
You are now working in the big leagues where the penalties for screwing up mistakenly or on purpose are severe and very permanent. Any criminal record or possibly just the hint of one can sink your new career. The really interesting projects (usually the huge dollar government ones) require contractors/employees that can pass criminal background checks. This became law right after 9/11, even here in Canada. No screwing around OK? You are the only person responsible for your success and what can be a fascinating and really well paying job. Good luck.

[2sac]

i thought a coke bottle half full of water and a rag on top were approved as a recovery machine because you cant see the gas cloud that way. Of course its been 25 years since i was in school learning about recovery. I started out with a chargeomatic cylinder. I bet the kid would freak seeing one of them things.

or a halogen or halide leak detector

[lytning]

But then the boss will realize that he isn't paying you enough to buy new boot and will give you a raise.

Then you look like a hack, you only get one chance to make a good first impression, buy new boots. Always maintain your appearance, your customers will notice and your boss also.

And about the venting refer, you are not in position to complain, nor will you get fined. When you get in your own truck will be soon enough to start doing things right. Meanwhile learn all you can, including how not to do things, from your journeyman and prepare yourself to be a better tech!

[btuhack]

This thread has to be a hoax but I'll play along. It's about remarkably poor judgement, right?

Backstabbing, name calling and finger pointing will ruin your rep in this small industry every bit as quick as epa shenanigans. Oh, I'm doing it behind their backs but only online...BS, parts counters always have 1 or 2 blowhards doing the exact same thing.

The kid better find a way to go out on his own quick, no shop is gonna tolerate "beauty parlor gossip" for long.