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  1. #14
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    Aug 2006
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    st.petersburg,fl
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by kklobas View Post
    yes had 104 degrees on both sides of drier when i checked. sub cool is good i would think at 12-14. it does cool, but takes about 4 hours to pull from 60 to 40. it's an 8 foot long deli case. i know SH is high, but it seemed like box started warming up as i opened txv. I'm hoping to check it this afternoon now that it's had all night to run.

    how long would you expect it to take a deli case like this to pull down. It does have 2 evap fans,1 coil
    Well you have other issues, that compressor is a low temp compressor rated 1,410 btus @ -25* ...
    So it looks someone along the way started putting in whatever they wanted...
    Also put screen back in TEV and return back to previous setting, ya never start twisting on valve unless you know what you are doing, the valve is adjusted when you are close to design temp of box so if it's even possible you made it worse by trying to adjust valve....
    to correct you are going to have to install proper compressor...

    Sorry for all the bad news

    Hope this helps...

    14* SC is just fine for that system and yes, box temp will climb in your situation when you open valve...
    Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get is that one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, well, the sky's the limit!

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    USA
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    4,381
    414b is my least favorite flavor of juice to use when maintaining temp with a pressure switch. I believe the glide is 17* which obviously will and can cause a tech to pull hairs from his head.

    Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk 2

  3. #16
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    Mar 2013
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    swan valley idaho
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    732
    it's 416a now.
    the Sh reading was at 40 box, shooting for 38 box, so it is at close to design temp. Is there just no way then to make it cool right with this compressor? Is it worth trying to open valve more and bring down SH?

    This is what happens when you work on 25 year old crap with no model or serial numbers left. I wish i hadn't put a new pressure control and timeclock on without checking nomenclature.

  4. #17
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    Jun 2013
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    N. Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by kklobas View Post
    Found it in my notes m# kam2-0050-1aa
    S# 69102096

    FYI it was about 80 deg. Ambient with above conditions
    KKlobas, I think that's one of those so called XL temp compressors that could run 0 to 40 below with R12.
    I tried one on R134 and you lose maybe 35% efficiency!
    You sure that there isn't a CPR tucked beside the compressor.
    What is your amperage?
    Curious choice of compressor for the case!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    st.petersburg,fl
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    805
    Quote Originally Posted by kklobas View Post
    it's 416a now.
    the Sh reading was at 40 box, shooting for 38 box, so it is at close to design temp. Is there just no way then to make it cool right with this compressor? Is it worth trying to open valve more and bring down SH?

    This is what happens when you work on 25 year old crap with no model or serial numbers left. I wish i hadn't put a new pressure control and timeclock on without checking nomenclature.
    1) If it's a cooler you should be shooting for 34.5* - 35* CO that way the average temp of your food is 37*

    2) Nope not with that compressor...
    3) Nope opening the valve will do nothing for you...

    And yes, to the next guy the compressor is XL and rated to -40*f, I just stated those number to show from my earlier post that .50 hp compressor and .50 ton valve is a no go...
    there will not be a CPR valve unless it was added after the fact...

    416 is a much better choice than Hot Shot but in this case neither will make any difference
    Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get is that one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, well, the sky's the limit!

  6. #19
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    Mar 2013
    Location
    swan valley idaho
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    732
    did not see a cpr valve. It sounds like some dumb a@# replaced with whatever was around who knows how long ago. where are you looking up the temp range- i dont see that in the nomenclature. also the first 2 digits of serial number being 69- does this mean 1969?
    holy crap. a 30% loss of capacity would explain extremly long pull down times.

    is there some literature link to verify compressor type for sure before i talk to owners. i would like to show them that. (this won't be a fun conversation).

  7. #20
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    Jun 2013
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    N. Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by kklobas View Post
    valve was ff 1/2c sporlan, and compressor is 1/2 hp semi. no ifo on model,serial# not sure about evap, but it does seem like it's matched up correct. Federal said the cases from that time period had a low pressure control for temp control. I'm thinking the 416a may help too. sight glass is bubbling alot with the 414b, but head is already 190-200, so can't add anymore(no reciever). hoping with 416a i may be able to clear glass......
    Kk I can't keep up with yr ref. swaps!
    Just dug out my original R414 data sheet & it does specifically state: "Txv systems....if charging by sight glass, a clear glass will be overcharged, a trace bubble is normal."
    Also of interest, says that capacity is increased over R12 by 8%

  8. #21
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    Jun 2013
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    N. Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by kklobas View Post
    did not see a cpr valve. It sounds like some dumb a@# replaced with whatever was around who knows how long ago. where are you looking up the temp range- i dont see that in the nomenclature. also the first 2 digits of serial number being 69- does this mean 1969?
    holy crap. a 30% loss of capacity would explain extremly long pull down times.

    is there some literature link to verify compressor type for sure before i talk to owners. i would like to show them that. (this won't be a fun conversation).
    KK, it is as stated and 1969.
    But date alone does not condemn (or I'm toast!).
    Pulled out copy of your case era Taylor deli cooler... if its a closed case, they ran 8ft on a 1/3hp unit!!!

    edit: CLOSED deli case advise against trying to run below 35f case. They say that the greater temp swings "pump" moisture out of the product. Their ideal temp states 38-40f.

    Your empty case slow pulldown is NG, though.
    Last edited by IRBH; 07-07-2013 at 01:24 PM. Reason: deli data

  9. #22
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    Mar 2013
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    swan valley idaho
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    ya- federal manual from 84 states 38-40 degrees also, controlled by a pressure control. with your calculation of a 1/3 capacity loss i'm now at a 1/3 hp compressor for this case. It is fully closed also

  10. #23
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    Jun 2013
    Location
    N. Canada
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    KK... I won't rush into the store saying that it can't work. The KAM cfh 169 Is right in line with med temp hermetics (RSN4-005 =164cfh). Over the years, I've seen many seemingly incongruous factory-released systems that work fine.
    Keep in mind that if you swap in a lower compression med. temp, it will produce LESS cooling (if kam was ok). Need amp reading! Take a drier with you (what! after only 44 years?)

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    st.petersburg,fl
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by kklobas View Post
    did not see a cpr valve. It sounds like some dumb a@# replaced with whatever was around who knows how long ago. where are you looking up the temp range- i dont see that in the nomenclature. also the first 2 digits of serial number being 69- does this mean 1969?
    holy crap. a 30% loss of capacity would explain extremly long pull down times.

    is there some literature link to verify compressor type for sure before i talk to owners. i would like to show them that. (this won't be a fun conversation).
    Here is the info on your compressor...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get is that one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, well, the sky's the limit!

  12. #25
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    Mar 2013
    Location
    swan valley idaho
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    732
    ya- it's amazing. im only 34 yrs. old! I normally stay away from stuff this bad/old, and my gut told me to. but they really wanted it fixed so stupid me says- i'll add a defrost clock, pressure switch, and 416a. this should keep you from freezing up.

    they want 3 months more out of this. hopefully the clock/switch will help it last. With high superheat and lonnnng pull downs the clock may get them by. I think i should quote a new condensing unit if they want to keep it.

    drier measured 104 on inlet and outlet- do you still suggest changing it?

  13. #26
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    Aug 2006
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    st.petersburg,fl
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    Quote Originally Posted by kklobas View Post
    ya- it's amazing. im only 34 yrs. old! I normally stay away from stuff this bad/old, and my gut told me to. but they really wanted it fixed so stupid me says- i'll add a defrost clock, pressure switch, and 416a. this should keep you from freezing up.

    they want 3 months more out of this. hopefully the clock/switch will help it last. With high superheat and lonnnng pull downs the clock may get them by. I think i should quote a new condensing unit if they want to keep it.

    drier measured 104 on inlet and outlet- do you still suggest changing it?
    Yes, Change it... if they want to keep it... Also If you Go to change it Install proper TEV while you are at it or you will still be on the losing end of this battle...

    Hope this helps
    Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get is that one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, well, the sky's the limit!

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